This page will list OS 8.5 comparison tests to OS 8.1 and other OS 8.5 comments that are submitted by readers. If you have comparison scores or other performance related comments to share, please contact me.
Latest OS 8.5 comments: (Updated 10/13/98)
OS 8.5 PTP/IBM HD Problems: A reader wrote regarding problems with the OEM IBM hard disk in his PowerTower Pro:
"
Hi,
I just got a copy of Mac OS 8.5 GM through the Apple Developer Conncetion
mailing. I haven't signed an NDA, so I assume I can talk to you.
I have a PowerTower Pro 225, with an IBM OEM DFHSS2F, revision 4141,
drive factory-installed. I also have a Quantum Fireball 6-gig drive
installed internally. Both drives had been formatted and initialized by
SilverLining 5.8.3 -- the latest available.
I installed MacOS 8.5, and it was *extremely* flaky -- intermittent
crashes all over the place. It was worst when the System Folder was on
the IBM drive; crashes upon boot, before reaching the finder, during the
setup assistant interview. The system was unusable. I suspected the
drive, so I took the trouble to modify Apple's Drive Setup application
(the version coming with 8.5) to allow me to initialize the drive with
Apple's own drivers. Still no luck, and the machine was flaky even when
booting from the Quantum.
Finally, I removed every partition from the IBM drive, to ensure no disk
activity at all from it, and now I've been running 8.5 for a couple of
hours without a hitch. I didn't take the time to play with the mode page
settings on the drive, but that's the next step I guess if I want to use
it.
Overall, once I got over that major problem, I was quite happy with the
system. It feels more responsive, and disk copies (as well as trash
emptying) are noticeably faster.
jim
"
As most PowerTower Pro owners know, the stock IBM disks have never seemed to be compatible with Apple's drive setup, however running Hard Disk Toolkit drivers was not a problem under OS 8.1.
"
I found that Conflict Catcher v4.1.1 works and the Application switcher
is quite stable,
using the Alt-tab & dragging it out of the menu bar into it's own
floating window.
What I do notice is, from time to time, the Open Transport v2.0 does
freeze up while
I'm using my USR 33.6 voice & w/ Serial Enabler to lock the ports, and
while using
either IE 4 & Netscape 4.
Now Menu's still works; however, I do get crashes once in a while,
anything related
to the pull-down menus w/ a white background. The ones with the gray
background
have not crashed so far, I assume that anything isn't Appearance
compliant for
menu's will crash.
Once in a while, when you try to shut down w/ OT still on & connected to
internet,
the Finder will crash, presenting a radio button to restart.
The Folder calculations in file view takes an average 5 seconds,
regardless of
folder size of 10 megs or 10k. However, if you do a Info command on one
folder,
the calc is instant. A real pisser is that when you close the window and
re-open it, the whole entire process repeats, it's not stored in cache
or memory.
About the Finder sucking up memory from my previous e-mail, the 23.7
megs of ram
is without VM or RamDoubler 8. With VM on, Finder takes 11 megs, w/ RD,
13megs.
Using RD 8's nifty Application window, the System Heap takes the
additional 2megs
of memory. Oh, and from what I can tell, 8.5 takes similar amount of
memory
to my 8.1 setup, which is 13 megs.
My most favorite part of 8.5 is that you can customize your columns in
the list
view. I've reverted mine back to System 7.1 state. In the View menu bar,
you
can reset the columns.
A nifty function is the Find by Content feature. It actually digs in
your text
based files, reading Word and html stuff to anything else. Enter a
search word
that's not a file name but in your doc file, it will come up. Very
useful for
those who have quite a collection of txt files. To setup this feature
will
take quite some time, depending on the content of your HD. It took me
about
15 minutes to 1hr on 2gig partitions out of 10gig total. The catalog
file on
each partition takes about 10 megs or so. A nice feature I wasn't
counting on,
was that one of the catalog file was corrupted and the Find by Content
told
me that it was & instructed me to delete it. It would be nice if there
was
a rebuild function.
Now if we can only have a Find by content that does picture files....
Other than Appearance related or OT, 8.5b2c2 is stable as or more than
8.1
"
"
Hello!
I just wanted to say that, in contrast to the experience of the most
recent posting on your OS 8.5 comp. tests site, that FinderPop does
indeed work on my G3 with 8.5b2c2.
It was the first piece of third-party software I added, and since I've
added some more, it still hasn't presented any problems other than some
of the imbedded icons having changed to two-bit or having gotten confused
with other icons on my Mac, but this has happened before!
take care; you run an excellent site!
"
"
Mike-
Contrary to another reader's post, I am using GoMac 1.5v1 and it works
fine and does not seem to conflict with the built in Application
Switcher. I like GoMac alot more because of the "switching-box" it pops
up. It also allows you to click on the icons of apps in the
switching-box in order to switch to one. A cool feature that hasn't
been mentioned is that in 8.5b2c2 Apple has finally implemented
resizable columns in the list view (ala extensions manager in 8.1). The
Apple Menu also adds a default Favorites menu that lets you add any
alias and bookmarks you might frequently use. The Network Browser looks
very similar to Win95 Network Neighborhood and looks cool but always
crashes my machine. I have a 3rd party Farallon 100BT card installed (3
Com with Farallon ROM, not the newer type) and it didn't work until I
enabled the new Apple Enet extension. The combination of OT 2 and the
new Apple Enet driver seem to increase browsing speed quite a bit.
Along with Netscape 4.5 (alot faster than previous versions and even
than IE 4.01) 8.5 brings the Mac to near PC browsing speeds.
"
"
Hey Mike:
Just a note for the MacOS 8.5 beta page; someone made the comment that
the application swicher could only be used live; that's not the case.
The application menu 'tears' off, leaving an app. switching window that
can either be a floating window, or attached to the bottom of the screen
(ala Win95/98 start menu). Just wanted to clarify...
By the way, I'm running b2c2 on an 8100/80 (no G3 upgrade yet!). I am
having some pretty serious stability problems. Although I've never
experienced a beta OS before, this one seems to be pretty buggy. If you
want details, please email me. I'm sure you're swamped. Thanks for a
great site.
"
[End 8/3/98 Updates]
"
hi there. i am running 8.5b2c2 on a g3 pb 292/14 with no
problems. i bounce back and forth between the 8.5 installed
on the pb and the 8.1 cd that game with the pb. startup
disk sees both disks and sees my ram disk if i make it a
system disk. no problem. i dumped conflict catcher, speed
doubler, and automenus pro to make 8.5 stable. and it is [stable]
and it is fast.
"
"
Mike,
I was wondering whether you could post this annoying problem I am having
with both OS betas, b2..b4...
I have a second internal drive on my G3 which I use to install the OS
beta software. After installation I (of course) have to use startup
disk to choose the OS 8.5.....All goes well until I use the startup disk
to go back to my every day drive....The Machine does not recognize my
drive, not only that, it won't recognize any drive, even the 8.1 CD with
booting with the "C" key. I have to open the box and pull the SCSI
ribbon off the drive, then my every day drive will boot....Thanks
"
If you have a solution to this problem please contact me for posting on this
page.
"
Hi Mike,
when testing out b2 of 8.5, I noticed that it was taking up MUCH
more RAM (VM turned off) than 8.1 Since I have a GREAT little utility
called RAMGAUGE installed (Control Panel that puts the amount of free
RAM whereever you want at the Finder menubar so you know exactly how
much memory is available.) I then happened to turn off the font
anti-aliasing while looking at the ram gauge and noticed that it gave me
back some 4 megs of ram! It may have been 3 but definitely not less!
Since I hate virtual memory and refuse to turn it on, and since I only
have 48 megs of RAM which is sadly not enough anymore, I think I will be
leaving this feature off on 8.5 Unless Apple can reduce the RAM
requirement.
Still, even with anti-aliasing turned off, 8.5 seems to take up around 4
or 5 megs of RAM more than 8.1 This will of course be reduced by the
time the golden master is released but still, I don't think they will be
able to shave it down too much.
For those of you lucky folks buying iMacs, make sure you get it from
places that have a free 32 meg dimm bundled with it for $1299US. You
will need it! Especially with OS X and games like Unreal!
Thanks for a great site and make sure you are getting enough Zs!
"
"
Mike:
First impressions of 8.5b2c2. For comparison, I'm currently running 8.1
on a 7500/100 upgraded with a NewerTech 250/167 Mhz G3 card, 2 7200 rpm
Quantum U/W attached to Adaptec 2940 U/W single-slot (the other external
bus has another 7200 drive, scanner, Zip) an IXmicro UltimateRez card
and a Lexmark Optra R+ and an Epson 800 connected via PortDoubler 5.0
(works for me...) I have a host of third party extensions, including
the usual?SD8, Conflict Catcher 4.1, ATM Deluxe with antialiasing on?and
way too many third party products, including GoMac, Finderpop,
DialogView, Doublescroll 2.2b6, Coolviews, SerialSpeed 230,
PopCalendar, PopChar Pro. I mostly use Microsoft Office, FaxSTF,
Statview 5.0, Netscape 4.5r1.
Impressions:
The Find File function is superb and fast. Beats all the third party
choices, uncluding Ultrafind for ease of use and speed.
The speed overall seems faster, though not dramatically so (see below).
Without SD8, scrolling, etc. seem as fast with 8.5 as with 8.1 with
SD8. Note I have a pretty fast 2D video card, though and fairly fast
drives (Quantum Viking II)
Control panels are better organized and more are apps, easier to deal
with crashes.
Antialiasing is excellent and has no real impact on speed (unlike Greg
Landweber's control panel (can't remember the name) which slows things
down substantially with text documents)
ATM 4.03, FaxSTF 5.0 Pro and Microsoft Office 98 seem OK. Amazingly Now
Utilities 6.7's NowMenus still works well, don't know about
SuperBoomerang. Haven't tried the new AMO yet.
Don't need DoubleScroll or DialogViews
What doesn't work: SpeedDoubler 8.0, Conflict Catcher 4.1 (update on
the way), Finderpop (big loss!), GoMac (another big loss). I hope that
updates for these shareware products are forthcoming
Haven't tried printing, Internet connections yet.
A few gimmicky things bug me. The sounds associated with some of the
different Appearance options are annoying and not synchronized with
what's happening, so it gives you a false send of speed. For example,
if scrolling gets "stuck" for some reason in a window, the buzzing sound
assigned to scrolling goes on unabated. Tacky.
The automatic DFA check on startup if the previous shutdown wasn't
"normal" is nice at first and good for novices but thoroughly annoying
after a while. DFA isn't that fast, and on a 4.5 GB disk with about 31K
files, takes a while. It can be turned off in the General Controls
panel.
In this beta version, the "Application Switcher" app keeps crashing
regularly.
Thanks for your great web site, feel free to post this anonymously if
you like. A b3 is out, so some of these problems may have gone away.
This shouldn't be a tough transition to make.
"
"
Mike,
I have a Powerbook G3 series machine running at 250 mhz. I have run some tests with system 8.1 and 8.5b2 and I just do not see the speed increases that some of your readers are claiming. The test that I dispute the most is the Macbench tests. MacBench tests CPU horsepower not operating system code or the like. I get exactly the same numbers from Macbench no matter if I am running 8.1 or 8.5b2. [More efficient OS code can affect benchmark scores-Mike]. What are these people doing to get such differences?
Of course I would love to have more speed, as everyone does...but how!!
Your page ROCKS!!!
Keep up the good work
Thomas
"
"
I am running MacOS 8.5b2c2 on a Power Computing PowerCenter 150 (which is stock other than ram upgrades-96megs) and have had no problems with the latest version of CDrom Toolkit and the stock Toshiba CDrom drive. Also I have noticed the system definitely feels faster than with MacOS 8.1. I also installed it on a 6100/60 (which has been clock chipped to 86mghz) and still have had no problems and feels faster too. One thing I did notice is that with the 6100, Newer Technology's Gauge Series Clockometer v2.0.1 will no longer recognize the 601 processor. I never had this problem with MacOS 8.1.
I can't wait till MacOS 8.5 is on the shelves. I am definitely going to buy it as I did with 8.0. This OS upgrade definitely should make more cash for Apple.
"
"
Although I see across the board a 5% increase of speed from
MacOS 8.1 to 8.5b2c2, there's a significant speed boast
in the graphics department.
I have a PowerCenterPro 240 with the ATI RageII chip built-in.
On a 1024x768 res w/ 8-bit color...
There is a 43% increase of speed from 8.1 to 8.5
I thought it was just the new ATI Graphics Accelerator v3.3.3,
after copying it over to OS8.1, there's only a 5% incr in speed.
I assume the new QuickDraw stuff is adding the rest of the speed.
BTW: I'm using Norton Util to judge the graphic speeds. On a
curious note, one of the saved models is a PM9600/200Mhz,
I assume it has the TwinTurbo 4meg card cuz the video tests
show it's 33% faster than mine w/ OS 8.1 & RageII.
With OS 8.5, my Rage II runs 7% faster than the 9600.
Unfortunately, the 9600 test model is running on OS 7.5.5
Could you ask your readers to compare speeds between their
TwinTurbo 4meg card to Rage II, both running on 8.1 and 8.5?
[If you can provide comparisons please contact me-Mike]
Another couple of notes...
Applications appear to be opening at a MUCH faster rate. I don't
have virtual memory on, and I also haven't had a chance to time it.
Finder now sucks up 23.7megs of ram, instead of 13megs of ram.
Anti-aliasing on the system-wide fonts make EVERYTHING easier to
read, especially in IE 4.01
Some pull-down menu windows have the pale white background instead
of the usual gray.
Keep up the good work, your site is the only one I read more than once
everyday other than my stockmarket portfolio. =)"
"
I've been poking around, and I've discovered a few interesting files in
the 8.5b2c2 package:
* iMac graphics
Seems to be a driver or accelerator of some sort for the iMac's RageIIc graphics.
* Mac OS ROM
Covered by rumors sites before but never saw for myself. 1.9MB file.
* Virtual memory
Faster some cases, slower others. Generally not a big improvement to me.
* Display bugs
After playing emulator games (SNES9X) and switching back to 832x624 my
screen redraws instantly but the icons are blue "holes" in the screen
until they finish drawing, line by line.
* MacsBug
OS 8.5b2c2 requires MacsBug 6.5.4a5c1. Earlier versions are disabled and
renamed "Obsolete MacsBug" in the System Folder.
* Zillions of special folders
Application Support, Help, TheFindByContentFolder, Appearance,
Favorites, Internet Search Sites, etc. ad nauseum.
* Alt-tab like switching
Live. No box, just direct switching. No option to put up a box either.
Quick on G3s, so-so for everyone else.
* Cool icons
24-bit, translucent title, still 31-character filenames.
* Disk First Aid no longer sucks
It repaired more than TechTool on my buddy's computer after a system
crash on Sequoia.
* Menu backgrounds white with CodeWarrior & Communicator 4.5b1
No idea why. Maybe a bug with NQD.
* Contextual menus are NOT instantaneous (yet?)
They drop unless you hold down the mouse button. Even on G3.
* Stability
More so than even 8.1 on my G3.
"
604E/200MHz Comparions:
"
Hi Mike,
I ran some preliminary tests with 8.1 vs. 8.5.
Nothing special, just some std. Finder operations... Here are my results...
File Copy....
Both folders were copied from one drive to another, both identical in make
and design, and residing on the same bus via Adaptec 2940 card....
Copy Carmageddon Folder (3,425 items 180.2 MB Chosen due to lots of small
files)
8.5: 2:22:26 (min:sec:hndths)
8.1: 5:48:35 (min:sec:hndths)
Copy Myth Folder (45 Items 337.6 MB Chosen because .gor files are some of
largest on my drive)
8.5: 1:32:70 (min:sec:hndths)
8.1: 1:47:30 (min:sec:hndths)
Empty Trash Carmageddon Files
8.5: 41:58 (sec:hndths)
8.1: 51:15 (sec:hndths)
Empty Trash Myth Files
8.5: Almost unmeasurable. A second or so.
8.1: Almost unmeasurable. A second or so.
Apple Script: I recorded an Apple Script that opened the first level of
directories on all four of my Hard Drives, opened 4 control panels and
closed them, and opened simple text and prompted a dialog when done. Made a
script because opening folders takes so little actual time, that It's
nearly impossible to measure the response unless there are thousands of
files in them, the only to measure it was to do a whole bunch of them. It
totals about 50 folders, and the opening of the 4 Hard Drive windows plus
the control panels (Appearance, Memory, Startup Disk, Apple Menu Options)
and Simple Text with a Prompt after it's opened to say the script is done.
Apple Script Test:
8.5: 1min 03secs First Run 52 secs Second Run
8.1: 1min 17 secs First Run 1 minute plus Second Run
(forgot to stop stopwatch). [Since applescript is said to be native in OS 8.5, I would have expected more of a difference in speed-Mike]
Maybe this will help clear some stuff up. It's not going to be faster in
all respects. I've run MacBench on the machine at work. No increase in CPU
or FPU scores, Disk access is on the average 30% faster, some CopyBits
functions much faster than 8.1, most of them the same. No other real gains.
There you go. If you have any other ideas for tests, I'd be glad to run
them for you.
VM ON (Memory default settings)
Apple Talk off.....
it's a 604e/200.... it's a bit more responsive than 8.1, but it's not
something to make you want to call home about. It is a very nice looking OS
though. Apple is getting much better at adding features. It seems stable in
it's current incarnation. I have not tried running games on it yet, so I am
not sure if any of the enhancements will affect performance there or not.
"
A G3 CPU card upgrade owner sends a note as well:
"
Mike,
I have recently obtained a copy of 8.5a9. It is a wonder to behold,
gorgeous, and fast as the blazes. So zippy feeling, in fact, that I felt a
MacBenching was in order. I don't believe the results, you won't believe
the results, but here they are:
(My Mac is a PCC PowerCurve with a 300/150/512 G3 upgrade)
CPU: 1372 (No, really, I didn't make a typo) I used to get about 960
FPU: 1120 (Again, no clumsy fingers) Used to get a VERY much smaller number
[He says libmoto was not used-Mike]
And this is with ALL extensions on, AppleTalk on, file sharing on, Eudora
in the background, etc.
If this is a reasonable indication of the streamlining of this system (and
it feels like it, have you ever seen Netscape launch in less time than it
takes to curse every member of the their development team, and only have
time to curse just one or two of them?) then we are about to reach the
promised land (PowerPC, 100% native land, that isŠ).
"
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