Reader Reports: (most recent first)
I welcome other revolution 7.1 card reports (please include your mac model/OS version and driver version used in reports.) Thanks.

(added 10/7/2008)
"I recently tried using my old M-Audio Revolution 7.1 with my new (to me) Powermac G5 Dual 1.8 GHZ (June 2004). I was working with audio driver 1.4.1, which was "certified" for use with OS 10.4.6. Even though I had Leopard installed, I thought I'd give it a try anyway. It did not work well at all.
When it did work properly, the audio sounded great. However, the audio would frequently drop or get garbled. Since I had a Tiger install disk and an extra hard drive handy, I thought I'd try the older OS. So I installed 10.4, updated it 10.4.7 (the earliest that the Perian codec pack will support) and still had the same problems, namely dropping, skipping and/or garbled audio.
I then tried Leopard beta drivers for the Revolution 5.1, but they refused to recognize my card, even though they're both based on the same chipset (Via Envy24.) I haven't bothered contacting M-Audio since my card is several years old and my warranty support is no longer in effect.

I had similar trouble with this card in my Sawtooth, and have just about given up getting to work. Besides, I found a better solution. I had an Echo Indigo IO PC Card that I used with my old laptop just sitting around. So I dropped in a Siig PCI-to-PCCard adapter and plugged in the Echo. (2003 Reader review of the Echo Indigo Audio PCcard here.) It sounds noticeably better than the M-Audio, and doesn't get garbled at all.
-Eric V. "

(added 1/8/2007 - updated 1/10/2007)
"Greetings. I have a Revolution 7.1 channel card version 1.5, Driver version 1.4.1 running OS X 10.4.8. Works OK, except for Quake 4 demo which only supports internal sound doesn't work in Classic mode (no OS 9 drivers, I guess)
I have an Altec Lansing ACS54 4.1 channel sound system (not listed with default speakers) don't really know how to set crossovers for speakers (I didn't know if the Altec's had crossovers or not) I just presumed that adjusting the crossover in the m-audio control panel would have some difference on the sound coming from the speakers, but apparently not much.
As for the Quake 4 demo...I have downloaded an update (1.3) which might help (I hope) but for me, and the 1.0 version of the demo, I had to switch from the m-audio to plain audio out in the sound control panel. I tried setting it up with just 2 speakers in the m-audio control panel, but it didn't work. Then again, the update just came out, and id and Aspyr couldn't have forseen that Mac users might be using add-on soundcards (which makes things just a little bit more complex) oh, and I have a Dual Processor 2.5 Ghz G5.
This is the most recent version of the drivers I've found. Any idea on how to get the acs 54 as a speaker set welcomed, along with how to fix the Quake 4 audio problem which IS serious. If I don't switch to internal 2 channel sound, the demo doesn't start at all :(

ps, fwiw, I like this card. Unlike the first addon Mac soundcard from Creative, this one actually works, doesn't fight with the OS and doesn't slow down my machine. Still waiting for any updates from M-audio. all in all, a good use of $100.

(He later wrote)
okay, same drivers as before (M-Audio 1.4.8) general version is 1.4.1
just got an email back from Aspyr. Apparently Quake 4 doesn't support 3rd party audio hardware, at least the Mac version doesn't. How funky is that? You make a game that gives a G5 a workout with amazing gameplay and graphics, but then when it comes to the audio-whoops! you'll just have to use built-in sound. Maybe it cost too much and was of little percieved benefit to add that sort of thing in (I'm just guessing here) still, what a shame!
-JB"

(added 11/30/2006) "I recently purchased a Revolution 7.1. I got the card working properly with the basic stuff, Apple DVD player and World of Warcraft. WoW sounds amazing, I can't believe how good the position sound is.

I have been unable to get the card to work with any of my other games. Quake 3, Doom 3, Quake 4 Demo, .. the list goes on, all these games fail almost immediately on launch when the Revolution output is selected (Crash log shows EXC_BAD_ACCESS).

I looked around and saw there once was a fix for this using the 2- channel "hack", but that feature is now gone.

I downloaded OpenAL 1.0 framework and tried substituting that into the various apps with no success. I also tried to steal the OpenAL framework from the Wakeboarding game included with the card (in which the audio does work via OpenAL and the revolution card).

System: G5 2x2.5GHz, nvidia 6800 Ultra 256MB, Revolution 7.1 via 6-CH output to Logitech Z-5300.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
(For the record I asked what driver version and OS X version he's using.-Mike) I have the latest software from their website: v1.4.1 and OS X 10.4.8.
- Andrew R. "

If any other 7.1 owner has suggestions/comment for Andrew let me know.
I don't own one of these cards but will write AJ, a reader that's used one for years now - he replied:

" Hi Mike, I haven't seen any EXC_BAD_ACCESS crashes with any of his listed games. However, they do have some issues with the card.

Quake 3 support with the Revo 7.1 only works with the last official release of Quake 3 before the source code was released. The source code that was released has an assertion in it that will automatically quit the app if Quake 3 detects anything but 2 channel audio. There's a work around by going into the Audio MIDI Setup application and changing from 8 channel audio to 2 channel audio.

Doom 3 also has issues with the Revo 7.1. It has an OpenAL output setting that is experimental and unsupported. I think you can enable it by starting up the application and immediately holding down the command key. For me the game was highly unstable using OpenAL and not worth the effort to get it to work. The only work around I could find for the game was to switch Mac OS to use the internal sound output, but that would require me to climb under my desk and play with the cables any time I wanted to play Doom 3 (I don't like playing with earphones on). So Doom 3 has pretty much been collecting dust.

Quake 4 is supposed to have better multichannel support but it's been awhile since I checked. The AMS work around may have been needed but I honestly don't remember.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. If I think of anything else I'll let you know.
-A.J. "

1.4.1 Driver Update/Reports:

(from 9/7/2006 mail)
"After installing the 1.41 Drivers on my G5 1.6GHz, I get the feedback, and scratch as well. Some websites when I pull them up with an integrated video won't play the audio through the speakers, but only through the single audio port on the computer itself. Is there a way to fix this? These drivers have been out forever, and it seems that nothing has been fixed at all.
Overall I have been frustrated, and disappointed in this audio card, because it has been more or less a headache to try and get my Z560 Logitech speakers to work just right. If you unplug the speakers, then put them back in, only two speakers work. To get the other two to work, you have to reinstall the drivers. Its a constant headache.
-Jason M."

(added 6/26/2006)
"I have a 867 PPC G4 Quicksilver, 1GB SDRAM.
REVO 7.1 Card was working with 10.4.5 and Quicktime 7.1, with the old Driver ... as soon as I put 10.4.6 and QT 7.1.1. And upgraded the REVO71_OSX_1.4.1 driver ... There was no sound coming out of the Speakers.

The control panel and shutdown all work, just like before...there is even sound registering in M-Audio Software. But no sound output.

I reinstalled 10.4.5 and QT7.1, but with this new driver it still does not work. I wish I had the old build of previous driver.
Keith G."

(added 11/18/2005)
"Hello Mike, I own a Powermac G4 Gigabit, which was originally a single CPU machine with 400 Mhz, but now there's a Dual G4 1.2 GHz module from GigaDesign inside (I hope I'll able to support you with an additional report about it too).

• MacOS X 10.4.3
• ATI Radeon 8500
• Sonnet Tempo Trio
• Revolution 7.1 (Driver version 1.4.1)
• Adaptec 2904

I'm able to report exactly the same issue as this one (from a previous report)
("Nevertheless, sometimes when i start playing a song with ITunes, i got a sound with continous interferences and scratch. If i stop or pause the song and play again, then it sounds properly. This occurs randomly once and a while. ... l. I'd like to know if this is a known issue for this card.)

This distortions and delays are really annoying. They weren't really solved in any release of the MacOS with any driver release.

If I use the built-in audio no such disharmonics were audible. I can't believe that an additional audio solution doesn't meet the needs for clear, undisturbed audio feeling.

actually the Revolution 7.1 is more or less useless for me. the same audio artefacts are audible by viewing dvd on my machine

DVD-drive: Model: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B
I'll hope my info will help to solve this prob as soon as possible.
Thanks for keeping the site up as well. Greetings from Austria,
Andreas C. "

I was curious and asked him if the boot drive was connected to the onboard IDE or the Sonnet Trio card - he said the boot drive was run from the Trio card.

(added 7/18/2005)
"System: Powermac G5 Dual 2.7GHz, 4.5GB memory Mac OS X 10.4.1
I recently bought the card and installed it with drivers v.1.4.1 downloaded from M-Audio's site.

For a week, no kernel panic messages at all, no problem with shutdown/restart and the sound is good. Nevertheless, sometimes when i start playing a song with ITunes, i got a sound with continous interferences and scratch. If i stop or pause the song and play again, then it sounds properly. This occurs randomly once and a while. The same happens, also randomly, when i test the speakers thru the options on the Revolution Control Panel. I'd like to know if this is a known issue for this card. Could it be related to the "random sound glitches" mentioned in previous feedback reports?
Thanks, RBP"

I don't know (don't own the card personally). I'd write M-Audio tech support to report this and see what they say/suggest. (Not sure if updating to 10.4.2 would affect this.)

(added 6/2/2005)
"About the revolution pref who doesn't appear, (comments in a 5/23 dated post below)
no idea about the cause but, now that i have the last quicktime version (recent QT 7.0.1 update-Mike), it's ok, the pref appears ! So, no idea, but it appeared when launching it while i was using the quicktime player, so is the last 7.01 (QT Update) or just the application that unjammed that, or coincidence, don't know but it could be a lead for persons who have same troubles.
-denis "

(added 5/24/2005)
"System: Quicksilver 2002/933MHz, 1.5GB RAM, 10.3.9.
I tried installing the 1.4.1 drivers, and everything worked with the exception that the volume levels were really really low. Audio would only start when the system volume level reached about one block less than half, below that it wasn't just faint, it was nonexistent (no speaker output at any of the speaker's volume knob, I have a set of Logitech Z-560s that get way louder than I ever run them, I couldn't hear anything with them turned as far up as they go). The output levels in the M-audio driver still showed activity though. This problem persevered after repairing permissions (nothing found) and removing, then reinstalling the 1.4.1 drivers.

Reverting to the 1.2.9 drivers works fine, I guess I'll stay there till I upgrade to Tiger or they bring out new drivers.
-Andy "

(added 5/24/2005)
"Under 10.3 my revo was working great, with the exception that sometimes the 'monitor input on output' would sometimes stop working, so I had to choose between monitoring input and getting the computer's audio.

After installing 10.4, the drivers had the same problem (the old 1.2 drivers at this point). Then I installed the 1.4 drivers, and had the reported problems with shutdown and restart. I also had an issue with the monitoring feature - there is a consistent crackling and chopping in the monitored audio. The new 1.4.1 drivers fixed the reboot issue, but still having issues with the monitor input on output feature.
-Kiel "

(added 5/23/2005)
"B&W w/G4 600MHZ 10.4.1 with last m-audio drivers 1.5: (driver 1.4.1 he later said-Mike)
headphones button gives no sound at all, was ok of course with other versions. Only stereo delivers sound on my Grado.

Is it due to last dvd reader or m-audio drivers, when i read a dvd, first screen with choices is full of scratches and other sounds, i even have trouble moving my mouse correctly.
When chapter launched or film, it's ok nevertheless. Curious.
Even more glitches than before under panther where no problem at all, even with srs options on this little g4 600MHz.
thanks, denis
(UPDATE:)
About the headphones trouble, i had to put output level to max, cursor full right so -36 like initially to 0; with that, it's ok now ! Stupid, i never realize nevertheless such level difference between headphones and stereo before.
BTW normal statment than full right ?
Maybe you should put addenda to my first remark for an advice about that, if some absent-minded like me!
sorry about my english !!
denis "

(added 5/23/2005)
"Although the 1.4.1 update fixed the shut down problems of 10.4 and 10.4.1. Now the Revolution System Preference will not open (from both the System Prefs. or the Applications folder). I did use the uninstaller to trash the old drivers, and even reinstall the driver again to make sure. Also, I haven't completely tested yet, but the random tricks and audio glitches also seem to be gone with the new driver; but again that's just a first impression.
10.4.1
Dual 867 Mhz MDD G4
Thanks, Mike "

(added 5/23/2005)
"Hello Mike,
I know that this really will not help anyone here but I would just like to tell you that I see you posted (a link to) new drivers for the M-Audio Revo 7.1 audio card. I had used this card in a 450 Dual PowerMac and also transferred this card to my Dual 1.25 MDD which I am using now. I owned this card from Jaguar thru Panther and just recently (three months ago) decided it was time to pull it from my system and say goodbye to it. I spent many hours troubleshooting this card's drivers with M-audio and much of my feedback was reported to you and still lives in your sites feedback section.
I really liked the sound that this card put out. I am not a gamer but I was able to output true 5.1 using VLC.
I was never able to get the "pops" and "hisses" to go away but they were to a minimum.

The problem that really made me decide to remove this card was an occasional "kernel panic". No matter what I did and how hard I tried to stop them they would come periodically. Usually a "pop" would precede it from my speaker. Although they were far and few between they still upset me. I knew deep down inside that this card was causing them hoping that the next released driver would cure them. But it never happened. Some updates came close while others spurred them on even more.

I had this problem with both systems so it is hard for me to believe that it was a system problem that I owned. I have not had one panic since I removed this card, actually just disabling the Revo software and leaving the card in it's slot stopped the panics also.
For now I have just "Y'ed" the stereo outputs on my Powermac and input them to my 5.1 speaker system. Music sounds good but not as good as the Revo card did with circlesound enabled.
For now I will just lurk and read. I may try the new Griffin FireWave 5.1 firewire breakout box if and when it is released. But it looks like that product is having problems too as it was announced back in January and still has not reached the market.
I felt bad pulling the card as it made me feel like I gave up. But I had no other choice.
Take care, Jerry "

I wonder if it's hardware related (not driver).

(added 5/23/2005)
"Hi Mike, I was happy to learn of the new Revolution 7.1 driver update. (1.4.1). I was having the same problem with Tiger on my AGP G4 1.5 Mercury Extreme GHZ with 1 gb of ram. The problem was not being able to shut down.
Well I updated to 1.4.1 and still have the same problem. I used the Revo uninstaller and did a re-install but that did not help. I've become completely frustrated with this. I have the Migilia DVR TV card and that works fine. Any suggestions?
Bill "

If removing the card/drivers solves the problem I'd write M-Audio. If not I'd check for 3rd party startup items (mentioned in the main site news page a couple of weeks ago - see Tiger restart/shutdown problems due to some 3rd party startup items.

(added 5/23/2005)
"What I said before:
"Besides the earlier reported shutdown/reboot problems (below) this version of the drivers also has some issue with playback in Tiger: If you try and play any authored AC3 files from A.Pack 1.5.4 (DVD Studio Pro) the audio will stutter and the machine will lock up if you try and quit VLC.
The same also occurs for DVD playback via VLC (Needed for DTS 5.1, 6.1, etc).
Hardware/Software
Dual G4 Sawtooth 500mhz, 1.25GB Ram
OX 10.4 Tiger

And now:
1.4.1 seems to do the trick...
Reboots working, same with shutdowns... AC3 playback is fixed and DVD playback as well...
And all vob trailers for DTS, Dolby playback flawlessly as well! Yipee!
-Stephen J. "

(added 5/20/2005)
"Hey mike, just checked m-audio's site today and they have brand new drivers for us revolution 7.1 folk. Fixes include the issues we've been having with the restart and shut down actions.
Here's the link to the dl:
http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/drivers/Revo71_OSX_1.4.1.dmg
(I asked if he actually installed the drivers to test the fixes.-Mike)
Yes I have. (Running OS X 10.4.1.) The 'Stereo-only' feature is removed, and the computer does indeed restart and shut down properly once again. Although the stereo-only feature is removed, problematic games like UT and Quake now function like they should, without me having to select or change settings before I launch them.
A good update, but once again the new drivers did not fix the pops and random sound glitches that occur once and a while with this card. -Alex S. "

Some previous reports here also mentioned static/noise.

Feedback on using Driver 1.4.0:
(Note: Some of the tiger problems reported below were supposed to be fixed in the release version. If any rev 7.1 owners are running the release version of Tiger w/driver 1.4.0 let me know if you see these problems.)

(added 5/9/2004)
"You asked for feedback about Revolution 7.1 with driver 1.4.0 and Tiger FCS.
I just ran into the static problem. I was using a Revolution 7.1 with driver 1.4.0 and Tiger FCS. I just got a new receiver. I hadn't used DD or DTS for a while. But after getting my new receiver I started trying them. I got the "static".
Backing out to (driver) 1.2.9 fixed it. (I didn't try backing out 1.4.0 and reinstalling it. I had installed it in 10.3.9 and upgraded to 10.4.)
Unfortunately I hadn't tried 1.4.0 with DD under 10.3. Under 10.3 I was using 2-channel output with Prologic. (This had to do with my audio equipment, not the computer.)
2-channel output was clean under 1.4.0 in all configurations.
-Charles H. "

(added 5/4/2005)
"Just installed the new 1.4.0 driver on my G4 FW800 model running OS 10.3.9. I do experience the same "Static" sounds from my speakers. I did the uninstall and install process, deleted whatever files I can find installed by the update and still the static persists. Ran iTunes for 10 mins, spund seems ok, started World of Warcraft within 5 mins into the game, static sounds came back. I will update you if I find anything interesting I can find later.
My machine specs as follows, OS 10.3.9, 1ghz model, running at 1.75gb of rams.
Regds, dom "

(added 4/28/2005)
"Besides the earlier reported shutdown/reboot problems (below) this version of the drivers also has some issue with playback in Tiger:

If you try and play any authored AC3 files from A.Pack 1.5.4 (DVD Studio Pro) the audio will stutter and the machine will lock up if you try and quit VLC.
The same also occurs for DVD playback via VLC (Needed for DTS 5.1, 6.1, etc).

Hardware/Software
Dual G4 Sawtooth 500mhz, 1.25GB Ram
OX 10.4 Tiger
-S. "

I asked if he was running the release build of Tiger and he said yes.

(added 4/27/2005)
"Tiger won't Reboot or Shutdown with the 1.40 Driver installed. (see the above report - which says that this problem was supposed to be fixed in the release version of Tiger. I asked John if he was running the release/GM build-Mike It has been confirmed several places, and I can confirm that as well. It may have all sorts of new features, but hold off on this one.
-John
(I asked if the previous driver version worked in Tiger.-Mike)
I haven't seen any identifiable problems with the 1.29 driver. I ripped out the 1.40 and reinstalled 1.29. It seems to be fine. "

(added 4/27/2005 - updated 4/28/2005 for a Tip)
"A couple of things I've noticed to an otherwise good driver release. (see previous post below for link)

1. After installation my audio Input defaulted to the new Revolution stereo-only output setting (??!?!?). If I have the Sound pref pane open with that configuration and something plays a sound, the pref pane freezes as well as the app trying to play the sound. Any other apps that try to play a sound will also freeze. I have to restart. The only two ways to restart are by doing a "reboot -n" in the terminal or holding down the power button. I can choose logout, reboot, and shutdown, but they do nothing as whatever froze the prefpane won't allow a clean shutdown. With the Input set to an appropriate Input device, then everything works fine.

2. Occasionally, my card gets in a state where the front left speaker would be "staticy". Also, various sounds would come out of my speakers when I'd do things in the GUI like moving the mouse (not the same as the standard GUI sound effects - I don't use them). This has happened since I first had the card. In the old M-Audio app, the test sound was static . Playing the static for a few seconds would fix both the static and the weird GUI sound effects. The new test sounds like the emergency broadcast signal test and doesn't clear up the static or weird GUI sound effects. So now I have to find a different app that plays a different constant sound through the left speaker to fix things.
-AJ "

A later reply above suggested AJ's problems may be due to a corrupted prefs/plist file:

" I suggest that this person probably has a corrupted plist file. Running the Revolution 7.1 Driver Uninstaller before running the Installer will correct the issue. "

Creating a new user in OS X and logging in as that user is one way to test for corrupted prefs in general - for those stored in the user directory.

M-Audio Revolution 7.1 driver 1.4.0 Update Notes: (from a reader mail on 4/21/2005)

" Hi Mike,
After I read about the M-Audio Delta drivers I did a search for new Revolution 7.1 drivers. They posted new ones (version 1.4.0) dated the same as Delta drivers (April 12, 2005). I'm about to install the drivers. If anything interesting occurs, I'll send you an update.

Here are some notes from the readme. I included the 1.3.0 driver notes because I do not recall those ever being released:

System Requirements

Mac OS X 10.2 and later

PowerMac G4 or greater

Release Notes

Turn off CircleSurround II in the Revolution 7.1 Control Panel before launching any game that utilizes OpenAL. The two different surround sound processing methods, CircleSurround II and OpenAL, can conflict when used in combination.

Do not use the Revolution stereo-only (Quake III) driver (audio engine) unless the standard Revolution Analog audio engine does not work with a particular application. The Revolution stereo-only (Quake III) driverÐselectable from the Sound preference panel in System Preferences, or through Audio MIDI SetupÐwas provided for use with those rare applications which only work with 2 audio channels. (Quake III is an example of this.) If the Revolution stereo-only (Quake III) driver is needed, make sure that no other applications are accessing the Revolution card, since such simultaneous use will result in conflicts which can lead to errors or crashes.

Advanced Users please note that there are currently discrepancies regarding Core AudioÕs channel numbering, as seen in the Audio MIDI Setup (AMS) utility, with the Revolution 7.1 Control Panel. Please use the M-Audio control panel for setting levels, preferences, etc. for the Revolution 7.1 PCI card.

Please visit our website for driver updates:
http://www.m-audio.com/drivers/

Revision History
1.4.0

• (Driver) New dual-interface audio engine, allowing applications to perform input and output on a single Revolution engine.
• (Panel) Control Panel now allows user to choose X2 or X3 surround modes.
• (Panel) Control Panel changed to accurately reflect current sample rate setting.

Ciao! -A.J. "

007 Nightfire and Tron 2.0 Game Problems:

(added 7/27/2004 - in reply to the previous report on Tron 2.0 audio problems)
"Hi Mike, I likewise have very bad static problems with a game, Nightfire007. I have a Quicksilver 2002, and use the 7.1 card extensively for everything, but with this game it doesn't work. I first thought it was a hardware problem on my Mac as the game requirements are for a 1 Ghz G4 and mine is only 933 Mhz, but when I swapped to playing the game through the headphones, (changing the system Sound Prefs for Output to the Headphones/onboard Audio vs the Rev 7.1 card) the sound was crystal clear. There might be something in the actual audio drivers for this game and Tron2, that M-Audio lacks or can't use. I don't know as I'm not a tech geek.
Andrew S."

I asked Andrew if he was running OS 10.3.4 and M-Audio drivers v1.2.9 (latest as of July 2004) and he said yes. (Please include this in reports as requested. Thanks.)

(added 7/26/2004)
TRON 2.0
I can not play Tron 2.0 with the revolution 7.1 card installed all I get is very bad static in the sound, Anyone know a cure?
jim"

I don't own the card but I asked if he tried setting the audio output back to the onboard Audio (vs the PCI Card). Also please include your OS version used, M-Audio driver version used and mac model in reports. Thanks.

(added 4/23/2004)
I've had the Revo 7.1 card for two months now and my overall sentiment is that It is a wonderful upgrade for my 1.6 G5. I currently use the 1.2.9 driver on Mac OS 10.3.3 and although the card had required much fine tuning I have gotten it to deliver very impressive results. I guess I will start off with the most impressive and work backwards.
I now watch all my 5.1 dvd's in 7.1 expanded analog surround using VLC with SRS Circle Surround turned off. (see below for a past tip on using Digital surround sound with Apple's DVD player) VLC itself will expand the 5.1 source to the 7.1 output, but there is one set back. Somewhere the software of either the card or the decoding done by VLC switches around two audio output channels. The solution is to swap the Center/Sub (orange) and the Surround L/R (side middle, black) plugs from the audio output. See the jack diagram:
http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/couts_revo71_cc779.jpg

I also listen to all my music using iTunes in pseudo 7.1 with SRS Circle Surround turned on (with the analog output in the labeled orientation). I play all my 2 channel movies using VLC in pseudo 7.1 with SRS Circle Surround turned on. I play my older 2 channel games in pseudo 7.1 with SRS Circle Surround turned on. I play newer surround enabled games (such as Jedi Academy) in 5.1 or 7.1 with SRS Circle Surround turned off.

Unfortunately I have had issues where the sound has cut out, usually in connection to Classic. This is usually resolved by opening the Revo control panel or opening a movie in VLC. I've also found that any Classic originating sound (such as playing Warcraft II or running an obsolete version of SoftWindows 98) becomes very choppy using analog Revo output. Thus when using Classic I resort to plugging stereo speakers into the standard G5 headphone jack and enabling them in System Preferences, bypassing the Revo altogether. I've also noticed that installing the 1.1 driver for OS 9.x and/or downgrading to 1.0.2 have no effect.

As I mentioned the Revo requires fine tuning if you do not have one of the many audio and surround systems listed in the Control Panel. I have not tried it with one of the listed systems but instead have made my own 7.1 system out of a hodgepodge of three completely different types of speakers.

One of the usual ways I use my Revo card is by plugging in my roommate's computer via double male headphone jack to the input on the Revo and then turning on "Monitor Input on Output" and "Apply Bass Management and Surround Sound settings to Monitored Input." I find this also works for a TV or any stereo input. It then expands the stereo input into 7.1 pseudo surround. Thus with enough splitters I have endowed my entire multimedia center with the ability to use all 8 of the speakers set carefully around the room. The only setback is that if I disable "Monitor Input on Output" and attempt to re-enable it I must turn off "Apply Bass Management and Surround Sound settings to Monitored Input" and be limited to 2 channel playback or else log out and log back in! Also, be sure to use the analog input and not the microphone jack because the microphone jack is only mono.

I've learned to live with the card's imperfections, but I sure wish I didn't have to and that the next driver correctly addressed these issues. Despite its drawbacks I have found myself very pleased to be the only one I know who has 7.1 surround in his college dorm room and frequently host movie nights with the assistance of my 20" monitor and some kettle corn. :-D
Although I recommend this card I offer the following warning: It has character!
Sincerely, Karl
P.S. I have not used the digital audio out as I have no digital surround box and thus cannot compare it to the built-in G5 digital audio out. I also have not made much use of the additional software that comes bundled with the Revo card.

P.P.S On an unrelated note I have gotten SoftWindows 98 to "work" on the G5, but since it is not sold or supported any more I do not recommend it. It will not read any cd-rom drives (but does on other machines) and won't work with Direct X 6.0 and above (true on all machines). However I have gotten most older Blizzard Games, Command and Conquer original and Roller Coaster Tycoon to work as well as various random applications. Also it suffers from the sound fluctuations I spoke of because it is in-fact an emulator of 98 running on an emulator of OS 9 running on X."

See below for previous reports/tips.

Rev. 7.1/LOTR ROTK Feedback on 4/21/2004 OpenAL Lib: Here's the first rev. 7.1 owner report on using the 4/21/2004 dated OpenAL lib linked below)

(added 4/23/2004)
"Mike, I tried the new lib with ROTK (LOTR Return of the King) and the same problem occurs, however the sound does come back. The game will play fine with sound for about 5 minutes, then during a scene such as after Gandolf fires the 3rd bolt, the sound cuts out, pops, and comes back. I tried a different lib, the one that comes with the demo game "WipeOut" from Aspyr and the sound does not go away.

My system: M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI card
Very Best Regards,
J.Miller "

The audio loss issue was noted earlier (not an issue with onboard audio). How to install the OpenAL lib in ROTK is mentioned in a previous posting below. (One LOTR/ROTK rev 7.1 owner earier reported no problems with the default game install/openal lib however.)

More Feedback on 10.3.3 w/1.2.9 Drivers: Here's some reader feedback in reply to the 10.3.3 user report below on problems he saw (initial 10.3.3 user reports were postive, but i wanted to check again to see if longer term use showed any problems)

(added 4/22/2004)
" Hi Mike. Just thought I'd drop a few comments/suggestions for people using the Revolution 7.1 card in G4s under OS 10.3.3 in both analog and digital setups.

First of all, for analog audio output: (which I really prefer for iTunes, games, etc), I strongly recommend not using any of the card's multichannel outputs. Most of the problems (I think) with this card have been when people are attempting to use the multichannel sets (like 4.1, 5.1, 7.1 surround) and SRS surround sound within the Revolution control panel. Since most current audio receivers have decent multichannel processing capabilities -- even in analog mode -- I can't recommend even bothering with attempting to use the Revo card's analog multichannel outputs. It just seems like more of a headache without much benefit. I find that I can create a much better surround sound effect by just using the stereo output from the Revo card and plugging it into an input on my receiver and letting it do the work. I still think the Revo card's stereo analog output is superior to my G4s onboard audio output -- so it's not a waste IMHO in this regard.

Now for digital:
When using DVD player for Dolby Digital output through the Revo card's coaxial digital output, the signal cannot be modified in any way -- otherwise your external digital decoder will not detect it as a Dolby Digital signal and thus not decode the signal. Thus, you cannot alter volume, mute, etc. when playing a DVD and using the digital output. This is completely normal. Any changes you choose to do must be done from the external receiver (volume, DSP, etc). BTW, pausing, advancing, resuming playback used to drop the digital signal to my Dolby Digital receiver, but this seems to have been fixed since around OS 10.3.1.

Note to S. Fuller: From my experience, whenever DVD player is launched, output is automatically switched to Revo digital out -- when it quits, it reverts to whatever output was selected previously (in my case, Rev analog output). This is pretty nifty for me, as I usually never have to fiddle with the sound or Revolution control panels when launching or quitting from DVDs to get proper audio output. Honestly, if DVDs are your only high resolution audio source, I'd recommend using the analog output for everything else. There probably isn't much benefit in routing low resolution audio files, like MP3s, through the digital output. Hope that helps.

G4 dual 1.25 FW 800, Radeon 9000 pro, 1.25 GB RAM, OS 10.3.3, Revolution 7.1 driver 1.2.9
Yamaha DVR-S100 receiver, 5.1 Dolby Digital output for DVDs
(6.1 capable, does decode!; I need another speaker to try this)
stereo analog output for all other audio sources -- no DSP settings set to stereo output in Revolution control panel

P.S. -- I've been running iTunes all day without fading effects between tracks without a kernel panic. I think I solved the problem I was having.
--Jim"

4/21/2004 dated OpenAL Lib: (from a reader post)

" There's a new version of OpenAL out now that apparently fixes the distance attenuation problem in the previous builds which affected games like UT2K3, UT2004, and America's Army. It may or may not work with Return of the King. I haven't been able to test it but you can grab it and try it out from my iDisk fileshare.
http://homepage.mac.com/a2daj/FileSharing.html
It's dated 20040421.
Here's a direct (download) link
You can also grab the official installer from here
http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=38&aid=97 but I believe it only installs the OpenAL framework and doesn't linclude the openal.dylib.
A.J. "

A reader using onboard Audio with UT2004 wrote he's had problems (game quitting) using this lib.

(added 4/21/2004)
" Hello Mike, I have been reading your posts for the past couple of day's and noticed that some are having problems with the Revolution 7.1 PCI sound card and OS 10.3.3. (not all though - see reports below) I really wish I could help those sort out their problems. Unfortunately all I can do is give you an update as to my status.

Since I updated to 10.3.3 I have had no real problems to speak of using this card. I have had no kernel panics. I am not a gamer and do not play games. I do however use iTunes whenever I am at the computer. I do use the fade from one song to another feature but once again have no problems with it.
Once and a while I will notice a little static coming out of my speakers but it's not half as bad as it was before the 10.3.3 update.
I can output 5.1 surround sound using VLC and turning off SRS in the revolution control panel. Apple DVD player does try to output 5.1 surround but something still is not right but it is close. Here are the specs of my machine and haxies I am using. I hope this helps at least someone here sort out their mess.

HARDWARE:
G4 Dual 450 Mhz. Gigabit Ethernet Powermac 1.5 GIG RAM, Revolution 7.1 PCI card, Creative Labs 5.1 ANALOG speaker set-up plugged directly into the revo card.

SOFTWARE: (remember users of addons should check for updated versions before updating their version of OS X.)
Mac OS 10.3.3, M-Audio 1.2.9 revolution drivers that were released last December 03', Safari 1.2.1, Safari Enhancer, window shade, X sounds, transparent dock, macjanitor, cache out X, iTunes 4.2. I of course have many other apps and programs. These are the ones running along with the revolution sound card.

As I reported to you in a earlier update that using classic or putting my computer to sleep for a extended period of time forced me to click on the revo control panel to get it to work again, this is not true anymore. It just resolved itself and is now working on it's own. Please don't ask me why as I have no idea.
I did find that once and a while trashing "m-audio preferences" will help. If they have not tried that yet. I also recommend repairing permissions, running MacJanitor, and emptying system cache will help. I do this maintenance on a weekly basis. Give or take a few day's or so.
Hopefully a new set of drivers are just around the corner.
Hope this helps, -Jerry"

(added 4/21/2004)
" I just purchased an Revolution 7.1 today as my newly acquired Digital Audio does not have audio in... (unlike my old faithful DP 450 MHz I sold recently)
Using the PEAK 4.1 Demo, I have imported at 24/96 using the line in... This worked fine... I have only played one DVD (Star Wars II) in stereo via the Revolution so far but tomorrow I intend to hook up my 5.1 set up from the lounge room and see how it performs... No problems experienced at all with stereo though.... (5.1 will be the real test I think)

The Control Panel works okay for me except for one little annoying issue. I have noticed that the gain slider in the Revolution Control Panel is offset by about 50% positive in comparison to Apple's controller. i.e. If I set the gain in the Rev Control Panel to zero dB (pic 1), Apple's Sound Control Panel is approximately 50% along the slider (pic 2) If I drag Rev's slider to +10dB (pic 3), then Apples control panel will jump to 75% gain (pic 4) (he sent PDF file screenshots, which I didn't post here.)
This renders Rev's input control useless due to the massive distortion at a high gain, and I notice clipping still occurs even at 0dB..
(I need to set my gain using Apple's Control Panel to about 22% from my source, in order to prevent clipping in applications I use)

This doesn't really bother me as I can still use the card fine, but it would be nice if this were to fixed in future..
As for my Digital Audio, well it's far from stock:
Hardware specs:
Digital Audio 733 MHz with a Sonnet 1200 MHz upgrade card installed. 1GB of RAM ATTO UL3S connecting an IBM UltraStar 18Gb 10,000 rpm drive (boot drive). Two 60Gb Seagate Barracuda's as a software stripe using the onboard controllers. Nvidia GeForce2 MX (32MB) in the AGP as my primary, ATI 128Pro (16MB) to run my secondary. PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-103, D-Link 120BT (Bluetooth USB adapter), Roland PC3000 USB Midi Keyboard, BenQ USB scanner
Software extensions/Additional Control Panels installed are:

Menu Meters, Adobe Version Cue, Deja Vu
Hardware: Microsoft Keyboard (Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro), OpenLink Settings Remote Desktop, USB Overdrive (Logitech mouse)

I'm using the 1.2.9 drivers for the Revolution on 10.3.3 I haven't tried any games yet as the video card pisses me off in this Mac.
I'm happy with my decision and would not hesitate to recommend the card...
Cheers, Raoul C."

(added 4/21/2004)
" System: G4 DP867, 2GB or RAM
Sound: M-Audio Revolution 7.1, Klipsch 4.1 surround sound speakers

10.3.3 actually fixed a problem I was having with audio. Every time I would open up a movie in Apple DVD Player or VLC the sound would shut off. I would have to launch the M-Audio control panel and the sound would come back. I don't see this behavior anymore since upgrading to 10.3.3. No audio problems at all.
C. Arnedo "

The page of 10.3.3 feedback had similar reports shortly after 10.3.3 was first released. (Also some initial 10.3.3 reports farther down here)

(added 4/21/2004)
"Hi Mike. I have been having some problems with my Revolution 7.1 card (1.2.9 driver) using OS 10.3.3. Particularly, I've been getting frequent kernel panics while using iTunes. It seems to occur mainly when a song is fading out/in to the next track. I didn't have this problem until the 10.3.3 update. G4 dual 1.25 FW 800
--Jim "

I asked if he was using analog or digital/optical speakers and if what (if any) settings (surround, etc.) settings he was using. Some had problems with iTunes (and KP's) in the past (before 10.3.3) but a few said the 10.3.3 update helped (see reports farther down posted shortly after the 10.3.3 update was released, including this one.)
I welcome feedback from other Rev. 7.1 card owners running 10.3.3. (If you're not having problems let me know that as well. Include any settings you're using with the card (surround mode, analog or digital outputs, etc.) Thanks.

Anyone Else having 10.3.3/Rev 7.1 Problems? I don't own this card personally but this reader said unlike some other 10.3.3 users, it wasn't an improvement for his card/configuration:

(added 4/20/2004)
"Like another reader here, I have a dual 450 G4 AGP PowerMac and the Revolution 7.1 card (1.2.9 drivers). The only other non-stock item on my machine is a Radeon 8500 AGP card. (see later comments on his use of OS X addon/3rd party software) Unlike others, however, I have found my experience in upgrading to 10.3.3 to be a less than joyous experience.
But then, most of my ownership of this card-now into my second year-has proven anything but happy.

My own particular setup needs are that I output to a receiver. I have multiple computers and it became too much a waste of space to have separate speaker systems for each computer. Part of my motivation to buy this card, then, was to have a way I could get sound that was better than what I was getting from my old 2.1 setup, while reducing the total number of components in my office. One flick of a remote, I thought naively, and I'd be able to switch between my computers. Oh, how wrong I was.

My initial foray into this brave new world involved a strictly analog receiver. Quickly I discovered this wasn't going to work. The card's analog outputs don't anticipate use on an analog receiver. There's no way to get anything but 2.0 sound in that setup - unless there are some specialized cables out there I don't know about. Still, I thought, I could fake at least 2.1 sound by having the receiver do the work of artificially routing some signal to the woofer. And at least I wouldn't be WORSE off than I had been before.

But that, alas, was not to be. Nothing I did in OS 10.2 would give me any more than 1.0 sound - and I'm not even talking mono, here, people. I mean the cruelest kind of 1.0 - left channel only. And, no, It was neither the cables nor the receivers. Other devices plugged into exactly the same jacks with exactly the same cables produced stereo sound. The guys at M-Audio tech support tried to help, but I just couldn't spend any more time diagnosing the problem. So I just plugged back into the onboard audio out jack and believed I'd wasted my money.

Time passed Panther came. I got a digital receiver. Tired after the massive rewiring job it took to get all my computers hooked into the new toy, and not wanting to waste more time on the Revolution, I figured it probably wouldn't work anyway. So more time passed. And somewhere at about the 10.2.2 update, free time and courage intersected. So I bought a coax cable, downloaded the 1.2.7 drivers, and....my whole office filled with some of the richest sound I'd ever heard. I was ecstatic. Everything worked liked I'd always wanted it to.

Until, just a few weeks ago, blissful in my confidence, I hit "OKAY" when Software Update told me to. 10.3.3 came streaming in, and almost immediately the sound went streaming out.

Now my audio is, at best, completely unpredictable. Sometimes it's fine. All sounds play through the receiver as they should. More often though DVDs play perfectly, but all other sound plays on my internal speakers. Internal speakers! This scared the hell out of me when it first happened. I had never even HEARD my internal speakers until a few weeks ago. (I assume the system sound settings are set for the proper output device.) I seriously jumped in my chair the first time this new wrinkle popped up because I've had external speakers hooked up to this computer since I first took it out of the box years ago. About ever 8 hours of DVD use, DVD Player will "quit unexpectedly". When I restart it, the sound will do one of three things. Either it will be fine, or it will be extremely choppy, or, more rarely, I'll get a message saying that the digital device has been removed. In this latter case, going to the DVD Player's Preferences will indeed confirm that the Revolution card is no longer present - although it's still present in the Sound Preference Pane. Likewise, the DVD video and iTuns playback will do one of three things. Either it will be fine, choppy, or entirely stopped. I read in some Apple support document that DVD video playback stopping is a sign of digital audio signal problems. Indeed, in the case of the video stopping (and by "stopping" I mean appearing to pause even though it seems set to play), if I select any other audio output device (including Revolution 7.1 analog), DVD video and iTunes playback will resume. (Any 10.3.3/rev 7.1 users want to suggest something chime in - otherwise I'd suggest reinstalling a Combo 10.3.3 update and maybe the driver again (the usual knee-jerk suggestions but I've seen tons of strange problems (w/o 3rd party hardware) be solved by combo updates since OS X first had them. Also I'd remove any 3rd party software haxies/addons, etc. as a general rule.-Mike)

Clearly, though, I can't leave things in this state. Once digital output has failed - regardless of how it manifests itself - I do a little dance back and forth between the M-Audio and Sound preference panes. I deselect, then reselect the Revolution in Sound. Then I deselect then reselect Digital in the M-Audio pref. Then maybe I'll restart. Or fiddle with the audio output selection on the DVD Player. Basically I mess around with all possible audio controls. But it's never quite the same thing twice. Eventually, I get things back to where the M-Audio pref is set to digital, the sound pref is set to Revolution 7.1 digital, and the DVD Player prefs are set to output to the Revolution 7.1 digital (I've gotten it to work both with and without Dolby dynamic range compression on). I wish I could at least get a pattern established. I could better live with knowing that there's a reliable, if tedious, "fix" to the problem. Sometimes I've fixed it in 5 minutes. Sometimes in an hour. It's just going through a series of selections, deselections and restarts until finally the sound - at least to the DVD - comes back.

Yet, even when the sound comes back, it's not controllable in any way. I can't mute. I can't affect the volume using any slider. I don't know if this is, strictly speaking, "abnormal". I don't remember at this point if this is how it behaved under 10.3.2. But at this point I don't care about any of that. I don't even care that system sounds go through the internal speakers. I just want to be able to play DVDs and iTunes material

I guess my point, overall is that, I can partially confirm what other readers have said, and wonder about some of the other comments here. Almost everyone seems to have experienced some kind of problem with the Revolution prior to about 10.3.2. But, for me, M-Audio's own admission on their website that testing has not been concluded on 10.3.3 is a warning to be heeded. It's worth mentioning that the Revolution is NOT officially supported on 10.3.3 yet - and I, for one, can see why.
S. Fuller
(I asked him for details on any addon software/hardware/haxies used, etc. (Please include that in mails, long long posts are welcome but also include all the basics. As noted here on the G5 compat. page last fall -there were revisons to the card for compat. with that system, but he doesn't have a G5.-Mike)

I've used this card for over two years, through many permutations of operating system and output device. I've gotten it to work for a space of only about two-three months in that time, when I was running OS 10.3.2 and Revolution 1.2.7--and then only by using the coaxial out cable. I've never gotten even basic stereo from the analog out, even by plugging simple headphones directly into the card. Until I got a digital receiver, the only thing I ever got out of the card, from the first driver out of the box until 1.2.7, was the left channel only, regardless of what application I was using.

I have reinstalled the combo update, the Revolution driver, and done everything save a complete reformat and reinstall of the operating system. (And here I'm only talking about my current configuration, which is as old as Jaguar's release date. At every new release of the OS--10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3--I reformat and do a fresh install).
There's not that much non-stock on my machine. The only thing I've added from the OEM is the Revolution card, 1.5GB of RAM (which was added about three years ago, and has passed every hardware test Apple has ever published in that time), and a Radeon 8500 AGP card. Other than that, the G4 dual-450 AGP is stock. As for non-apple OS X add-ons, the problem first occurred when the only additional extensions in System Preferences were (the most recent) Logitech Control Center, Deja Vu, Shapeshifter, Stuffit AVR, Visage (which isn't enabled), PowerManager, and the M-Audio pref pane itself. (it may not be related to problems but when troubleshooting (and in general) I'd remove these sorts of addons - simplifying is the first step in any troubleshooting.) I had this setup in 10.3.2 when it was working, and the same setup in 10.3.3 when it wasn't. When I first crossed into 10.3.3 I was still using version 1.2.7 of the M-Audio driver, then I quickly switched to 1.2.9. I would think, then, that these preference panes can be ruled out, although I suppose it's possible they were cool with 1.2.7 but might be interacting with 1.2.9 in a different way. That being said, it's hard to see how these preference panes would have any direct connection with the sound subsystem--except that the keyboard does have volume controls.

Of course the whole problem is indirect. It's not that the introduction of 10.3.3 IMMEDIATELY made audio unstable. Nor is it that I switched to 1.2.9 because I NEEDED to. It worked with 1.2.7 and 10.3.3. Nor is it that things failed immediately upon upgrading to 1.2.9.

But the changes also COULD have started to make the system unstable without me knowing it. The nature of this problem is, after all, intermittent, unpredictable failure.

Since the switch to 10.3.3 I've made additional changes, adding FontCard, MenuMaster, PowerManager, Silk, WindowShadeX, and Xounds. I suspected Xounds as a possible culprit but have ruled it out because I've run without it enabled for a while now, and that's made no difference. Outside the System Preferences, I've also started running Konfabulator (and various Widgets, depending on my mood) as a startup item. I don't have sound enabled in any of the Widgets that could potentially produce sound. In any case, Konfabulator was definitely added long after the problem surfaced, and running with Konfabulator completely closed has made no difference.
S. Fuller "

I've written the programmer at M-Audio to ask about this and according to their website they were still testing with 10.3.3 as of April 1st, 2004. (No updates on that to date - they don't -warn- about using 10.3.3, but had not fully tested with 10.3.3 apparently. (BTW - if you have your browser set to not accept cookies the m-audio site doesn't work - all I got was constantly looping in Safari and IE in 10.3.3 until I enabled cookies.)

Since I don't own this card I wrote A.J. (who does) and asked if he had seen any 10.3.3 problems (as initial reports here from 7.1 owners running 1.2.9/10.3.3 were positive)

(added 4/20/2004)
"Here's a clip from their Support Knowledge Base (using Mozilla):

"Currently, the recommended MacOS versions for most M-Audio products are:
- MacOS X, Panther: 10.3.2 (free update from earlier versions of 10.3)
- MacOS X, Jaguar: 10.2.8 (free update from earlier versions of 10.2)
- MacOS 9: 9.2.2 (free update from earlier versions of OS 9)
Always check this document when planning to update your OS as M-Audio will frequently update the current OS recommendations.
(M-Audio's 10.3.3 tests have not yet been completed)"

For the most part I've read people experience positive results with 10.3.3. I haven't actually dug around their site since 1.2.9 drivers were released until you asked. I personally have never had any long standing problems with my card. Never any kernel panics or anything but for other users 10.3.3 brought stability to their systems with Revolutions 7.1s installed.
I'm running 10.3.3.
A.J. "

I welcome feedback from other Rev. 7.1 card owners running 10.3.3 to see if S. Fuller's problems are that common. (Include your mac model/any 3rd party mods/haxies/addons, speaker setup and any settings you're using in the m-audio control panel.)

(added 4/12/2004)
"Quick note about UT2Kn and OpenAL. As some of you may have experienced, the sound effects are hard to hear until you're right next to the source. I've done a really, really ugly hack to OpenAL to try and get UT2Kn's 3D sound working properly based on some information I read in the OpenAL mailing list. This is a temporary OpenAL patch and should only be used by those with Revolution 7.1 cards and analog speakers (the only folks who can get true multichannel sound anyway). I've only tested it briefly with UT2K4 retail. It's not even close to perfect by good enough to see what the hubbub is about.

If you do use it, I cannot guarantee everything will work well. Use at your own risk. I take no responsibility if your dog gets kicked because you used this hack:
Ugly OpenAL hack for UT2Kn
Once a real solution is provided by the OpenAL guys or Ryan, please dump this hack.
-A.J. "

Speaking of revised OpenAL libs - the reader that sent the first LOTR/ROTK problem report sent a copy of an email to Aspyr support on using an updated (developer) OpenAL lib that solved his problem but see the updated comments (loss of audio after 5-10min of play). (Note see below for another Rev 7.1 owner w/ATI graphics card that noted no problems with the default openal lib with LOTR.)

(added 4/12/2004 - revised 4/13/2004 to note audio loss after 5-10min using this version of the OpenAL Lib.)
"Dear Aspyr Media Support,
I have been able to successfully run The Lord of the Rings ; The Return of the King - MAC with the M-Audio card G5 1.8 single, 1.5 GB RAM, 160 GB HD, Nvidia 5200 FX, 10.3.3. (Note: he later wrote the problem still appeared after 5-10min of play)
Please see the following procedure:

1. Download the new OpenAL pre-built lib:
http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=38&aid=97&file=OpenAL_Installer_OSX.dmg
** Note: the version change on 04/11/04, I tried an earlier version and there was no sound. The new version gives very good sound. (Note: he later wrote that after 5-10min the sound dropped out. However there's a new version of the OpenAL lib dated 4/21/2004 that may solve that. See later update and reports above.-Mike)

2. Run the OpenAL installer.

3. Copy the OpenAL.framework folder from the Library/Frameworks/ to the The Return Of the King/Data folder (Be sure to place the original OpenAL.framework folder in a safe place)

4. Run The Return Of the King Game

The sound is very good. There are no crashes, no popping or hissing. I will continue to check the reliability of the sound an game with this updated OpenAL.framework. So far it is very good.
Very Best Regards,
Jeffrey M.
(I asked Jeffrey if he had seen a loss of audio after 10min or so of playing the game with this OpenAL mod, based on AJ's comments below.-Mike)
Mike, I do see the sound cut after 5-10 minutes. I confirmed it is repeatable. Strange?"

Here's A.J.'s report about loss of Audio after 5-10min in LOLR when using a modified/replaced OpenAL lib:

(added 4/12/2004, in reply to Jeff's post above)
"Hi Mike, I just read the note from Jeffrey regarding the latest version of OpenAL with RotK. I've been playing around with both since the 8th (after the fix for RotK was checked into the OpenAL project) and for me, the sound cuts out of RotK about 5-10 minutes into the game. I'll try again with the official installer, but my code is based off of the same code so it should behave the same.
Ciao! A.J. "

Another LOTR/ROTK owner report:

(added 4/12/2004)
"I have a 7.1 revolution card with a ATI 9800 retail card and LOTR Return of the King audio is messed up. No voice during the movie playbacks music yes but no voice. Same problem with Unreal Tourn 2004 but that was fixable with the OpenAL swap from the demo.
(he later wrote)
after reinstalling the revolution 7.1 drivers (1.2.9) the voice during movie playback is audible. maybe when the game is installed it overwrites something that the card needs?
Jim P. "

I don't own this card but I'd suspect some audio settings (system prefs?) got changed and reinstalling may have restored them.

Rev. 7.1 Issue with Mac LOTR: Return of the King? (Update - a 2nd Rev. 7.1 owner w/ATI graphics card noted no problems with ROTK. I'm not sure if the first Rev. 7.1 owner's Nvidia card is a factor or if something else was the cause - however the copy of Aspyr's comments added below implied they had tested and found some problems related to the Rev. 7.1 card.)
I haven't seen any problems (yet at least but don't get a lot of time to play the game) with LOTR/ROTK on a G5 w/OEM 9800 Pro card and using onboard Audio, but a reader reported a problem with the game crashing during play. ("The crash is repeatable and occurs on the third bolt Gandolf fires at the entrance to Helms Deep")
After some mails back and forth it turns out his G5 (1.8GHz w/Nvidia 5200 card, 10.3.3) has a Revolution 7.1 Audio card (w/1.2.9 drivers) used for the audio output, which Aspyr thinks is the cause of the problems according to this reply he copied to me after he wrote them with his system details/crash log.

" Aspyr Media Support Response
Hello, Jeffrey.
We've tested your make of sound card with the game, and it does appear that it is a problem with the card and not the game. We will be looking into a fix if possible, but we cannot guarantee any soultion at this time. You also might want to write the manufacturer of the audio card to let them know.

If you deselect the audio card as the output device in System Preferences -> Sound you can play normally without the buzzing noise and crashes. "

I asked if he had verified this by changing the system audio output device back to the onboard Audio.
If any other LOTR owners with a Revolution 7.1 audio card haven't seen this problem let me know or post a game review in the database (see sidebar links) and include your system info. Thanks.
Another Revolution 7.1 card user replied to this post noting he has seen no problems with LOTR ROTK.

" Hi Mike, I have a Revo 7.1 and have played RotK without any problems in both analog and digital output mode.
System details:
Dual 1.2 GHz PL updated Quicksilver G4
OS X 10.3.3, Radeon 9800 Pro
Revolution 7.1 w/ 1.2.9 drivers

Side note:
RotK uses OpenAL for it's audio. In the data folder there's an OpenAL.framework. Replacing this with Apple's current version of OpenAL breaks audio (no game sound) so I wouldn't recommend trying it. I'm going to send an email to Aspyr begging and pleading with them to ask the developers to add multichannel support if possible.
Ciao! A.J. "

I'm not sure if the G5 owner w/nvidia 5200 card/rev. 7.1 replaced the OpenAL lib or not. (He said he would write back if switching to onboard Audio solved the issue.)

Revolution 7.1 Audio Card Tips for retail Mac UT2004:
If you're using an M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI audio card and have no sound effects (using analog speakers) with retail Mac Unreal Tournament 2004 try one of these reader tips that solved the problem for them. Shawn, the reader that first reported the lack of sound effects with retail UT2004/Rev. 7.1 audio card wrote with his solution.

"Hi Mike, I have further investigated the issue with UT Retail and no sound effects and found that if I take the (UT2004) demo and put the openal.dylib file from the ut 2004 demo in the retail version, the sound effects are back and the game works perfectly.
I dont know what was changed in the above file but whatever it was it does not like the Revolution, Hope this helps others.
My 7.1 surround is back and the game sounds awesome!
Shawn "

A 2nd Revolution 7.1/retail UT2004 user wrote he's seen the same lack of sound effects reported previously and said using the digital vs analog outputs solved the problem:

" Good afternoon, Mike. I've got UT2K4 retail and the m-audio Revolution sound card (latest drivers). Have also played the demo. In the demo, I got all sound through the analog out portion of the card (didn't try the coax or optical feed). Sound was present but choppy/inconsistent (random hissing or random volume fluctuations).
In the retail (UT2004) version, got music but nothing else through the analog output from the card.
However, when I changed the output from the card to coaxal output (digital), I got full sound in everything (and pretty impressive too-sounds like surround is working). Didn't play with the drivers.

My system is a MDD dual 867 (o'clocked to 1 gig), m-audio Revolution 7.1 card, 1.75GB ram, ATI 9800 retail, Panther 10.3.3.
Game's a hoot so far, but I've only had it a couple of hours.
Cordially, Jay Wills "

For those Rev. 7.1 owners without digital input speakers, hopefully there will be an update for the analog audio problem. (earlier report on the same issue follows - I emailed Shawn to ask if he had speakers with digital inputs, but see his later post above on using the demo's openal.dylib solving the problem.)

" Hi Mike, Saw the article on your page and in answer to your question my revolution is using 1.2.9 and yes the ut 2004 demo works fine with the revolution card. So does ut2003 (retail) and every other game I have.
The music works fine with retail ut 2004 but no sound effects whatsoever. I can switch outputs to usb iMic (Griffin) and the effects are back. I can run audio thru the digital out and analog out and everything works too. So I am thinking something changed between the demo and the retail version. I heard that a open al bug was fixed and maybe this is what changed.?
Thanks, Shawn "

I can't remember the past comments from Ryan on this but you can check his bugtracker reports using the link posted in his comments on Feb. 12th - see bugtracker at https://bugzilla.icculus.org/. (As mentioned before there's a certificate warning that appears using that URL, which can be ignored.)

This reader tip may not apply (see his updated comments below). However one of the other 2 tips above (using digital outputs or replacing the openal lib) should solve the Rev. 7.1 analog audio no sound effects problem.

" Hi Mike, Since none of the readers with analog speaker problems mentioned whether or not they turned off Circle Surround, I figure I'd let you know that in order for true analog 5.1 to work you must turn off Circle Surround via the M-Audio configuration app. With CS (Circle Surround) on, it might be messing with the sound effect channels.
Music is usually played in standard stereo so that's probably why sound works but sound effects are having issues. Since there's no Dolby Digital encoder built into the OS there's no way multichannel sound will get output through a digital interface right now. Those that switched to the Digital output for UT2K4 (see previous report below) are probably just getting simulated surround being handled by their receivers.
I'll try it when I get home from work
-a2daj
Update: he later wrote)
Argh. Long day. Forget I said anything. I'm not thinking straight. Turning off Circle Surround won't do anything since I doubt they did the OpenAL mod I did. Sorry. "

The mod he's referring to is mentioned in the 5.1 surround sound/openal lib mod posting from earlier today (below).

5.1 surround with UT2003 ? (from a reader post)

(added 4/2/2004)
" 5.1 surround in UT2K3 (and possibly 2K4)?
Hmmm... I think I just got 5.1 channel surround working in UT2K3.
The last time I dropped in the Apple OpenAL lib into UT2K3 the M-Audio app only showed stereo left and right.
I built the lib in Xcode from source here (http://www.openal.org/downloads.html.)

Then, while reading an OpenAL dev list message about configuring the Audio MIDI Setup app I decided to give it another try.

Here's what I did:

1. Configured the MIDI Setup app for my analog speakers (my audio card and speaker setup supports digital and analog output)

2. Opened up Unreal Tournament 2003.app/System and moved the official UT2K3 openal.dylib to a safe spot.

3. Dropped Apple's OpenAL lib in and started up the app. When the NVIDIA logo popped up I hit option+enter to switch to windowed mode.

4. Started up the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 app and switched to the Output Mixer tab.

While in the main menu I noticed that when I'd click on options the center channel would play a sound. A look at M-Audio's config app confirmed sound was coming out of that channel. I started up an instant action game and turned on God mode. Once people started shooting I looked at the channel display and noticed all channels sounding independantly!! Yay! I'm going to mess around with UT2K3 and UT2K4 demo for a bit to confirm whether or not it's working properly. Sweet!
a2daj "

I'm really going to have to pick up one of these cards (and some decent speakers) since some of the later (10.3.3) feedback on this card has been pretty positive.

While on the subject, one reader that owns this card said he had audio problems (music only - no sound effects) when playing the retail version of Mac UT2004. (Other owners of the card said it worked fine with the UT2004 demo, so I asked him if he had used that before and had the latest 1.2.9 driver installed but he's not replied back yet.) If any other Rev. 7.1 card owners are running the retail version of Unreal Tournament 2004, let me know if you've seen this problem. (Include OS/driver/system details -thanks.)

(added 3/29/2004)
" I just read your posting about 10.3.3 and the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 card. (first report from 10.3.3 a week or two ago) I had also abandoned using the Revolution 7.1 card several months ago. Too many system crashes. Sounds very promising. I'll be testing this as soon as I get a chance. My system is in a isolation sound box so adding cards is a pain...
(time passes-- Well actually over a week passed before I actually got around to testing)

This is GREAT!!
Everything is finally working as it should have when I first bought the Revolution 7.1 board a couple of years ago.

Sound is significantly better with no more cracks and pops. I have been running the set up for a day now. I used to get a crash within the first hour. I did have ITunes crash once but that was after plugging in the Ipod into it's base. The fix was just a matter of restarting Itues not a system crash as before. Itunes hasn't been the rock solid program it was for me before 10.3.3 but crashes are usually isolated to when I'm doing a lot of CD imports and may also be related to my newly acquired Ipod.

The Set Up:
Running driver v1.2.9 of the M-audio Revolution 7.1 software under 10.3.3. System is a G4 sawtooth with upgraded Giga Designs 1.1Ghz processor and ATI 8500 and 1.25GB ram.

An added bonus, my Griffin Technology PowerMate, the big volume control, now controls the entire audio feed to the Revolution card. It used to only handle the front channels.

Well it took a long time but Apple, Griffin and M-Audio are finally working together!!
Enjoy, --Bryan "

(added 3/29/2004)
" Hello Mike, I just wanted to wait a while getting back to you as in the past I had several false positives. Well, I have been using the Revolution 7.1 PCI sound card with my G4 Dual 450Mhz. PowerMac under Mac OS 10.3.3 for a solid 10 Days now. ( Using a 5.1 Surround Creative Inspire Analog Speaker Setup ) I just thought I would pass along some great news to you.

PROS:

No Kernel Panics using iTunes or anything else.

No Clicks or Pops

Sound is very good.

CONS:

No support from Apple DVD Player 4.0 outputting analog surround. (see earlier report below on using Apple DVD player w/digital surround) There may be a way, I just cannot seem to find it. I did however output 5.1 surround sound using VLC player 0.7.1. Just had to shut off "SRS" in the revolution preference pane. (another Rev 7.1 card owner report below noted Apple DVD Player (10.3.3) output selection for 5.1 with this card - see below, but he notes that worked for 5.1 Dolby digital surround.-Mike)

If Classic is used and Quit the sound will not return. I must open the revolution preference pane. As soon as the window opens the sound returns. This also holds true if the computer has been sleeping for a long period of time.

Hopefully all this will hold throughout the next series of either OS or Revolution updates.
Take Care, -Jerry
(he later wrote)
Yes. I saw that tip and I am sure it will work with digital out. What Apple needs to do is allow an analog out selection just like that which would allow Apple DVD player to output analog 5.1 surround VIA the revo 7.1 card.
-Jerry "

OS X DVD Player 5.1 Surround Sound Tip
I don't own this card (but might have to try one soon) but this reader sent a note on settings for 5.1 audio out with the Apple OS X DVD Player:

(added 3/26/2004)
"Hey Mike,
Just wanted to add my experience with using the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 sound card under OS X 10.3.3. On my dual 1.42 GHz G4 system it's running very well. I get Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound via the Apple DVD player and the sound is crisp and clean on all channels via my Logitech Z680 speakers using the coax digital output from the card.

Note: to get Dolby Digital output from DVD player I had to go to the preferences in the player and under the "Disc Setup" tab where it says "Audio output:" I had to select "Revolution Digital Out" instead of the default "System Sound Output." Before making this change I could only get ProLogic surround. With the correct setting Dolby Digital works and sounds fantastic.
Cheers - Fourth Horseman
... forgot to mention that I'm running the latest 1.2.9 drivers from M-Audio. "

(added 3/26/2004)
" To my surprise, UT2K4 (Unreal Tournament 2004 Demo) now runs like a dream with the m-audio revolution (7.1) card installed in my single G5 1.8GHz (and in the 133 MHz slot). Perhaps, this was the problem the programmer was referring to, about the performance. (I didn't know what he was referring to but see another reader's comments on this below.) Maybe the programmer's machine includes an m-audio card, and during compiling he linked it to libs associated with the m-audio card? (see comments below) In UT2K4, the assault level and the onslaught level are fluid, with very little hitching. I never though just adding the sound card would make such a huge difference. This certainly makes me very curious.
(he previously wrote)
This card is absolutely required for any gamer on the G5! :) Games feel more fluid and faster. I have tried UT2K3, UT2K4 demo, MOH Spearhead Demo, and Jedi Academy. All my games run great! Perhaps my CPU is getting some resources back? Note, on UT2K3 I copied the openalib from the from the UT2K4 into the system of UT2K3. First trial of UT2K3 gave garbage, after replacing the openalib, it runs great! What a deal!
I am so far very happy with this card for $78.00. I highly recommend any G5 owners who play games to get the m-audio revolution PCI card.
Best Regards,
Jeffrey M. "

I asked if he was running 10.3.3 and he said yes, along with the 1.2.9 rev 7.1 Drivers.

Another Rev. 7.1 owner replied to the post above regarding the programming bug and resources comments:

" Hi Mike, In regards to the reader report (above) about the Revo 7.1 and UT2K4 performance, I'm pretty sure it's all placebo effect. The Revolution 7.1 does not offload any sound processing from the CPU. All it is to Mac OS X is another sound output device. The OS still processes all of the sounds. The bug in UT2K4 had nothing to do with sound cards but was a misuse of the sleep() function within the sound code (milliseconds vs microseconds). There are no libraries to link to for specific Revo 7.1 programming as there's no API for it.
I agree with Jeffrey in that the Revo 7.1 is a nice card. I've been using one for over a year in my dual 1.2 GHz Quicksilver G4. I have had no serious problems (read: no kernel panics) I can directly relate to the card or drivers.
Ciao, A.J. "

Jeffrey wrote he's still convinced he's seeing performance gains on his G5 in games (if the CPU was offloaded by the card's DSP I'd expect that but I think for most mac games the CPU is still doing the game's audio calcs and just outputting to the card). I don't own this card but if anyone else that does has seen improved game performance with it let me know. Previously a Revolution 7.1 PCI Audio card owner noted improved performance after the 10.3.3 update so I asked Jeffrey if he was using 10.3.3 also. (There were some problem reports last fall from G5 owners - some due to early revisions of the card and drivers. See the PCI compat. section of the G5 tech docs/compatibility page but hopefully the latest cards/OS/drivers have solved that.)

10.3.3 Improvements?

(added 3/17/2004)
" Hello Mike, I just wanted to send you a small heads-up as I see that you started a page on Mac OS 10.3.3 improvements.
About a month ago I abandoned using my Revolution 7.1 sound card due to occasional kernel panics while I was using iTunes, also clicks pops and the rear speaker volume was somewhat distorted and muted.
I just got to the kernel panic fed-up stage and used my G4 audio out.
I am using an analog 5.1 setup with this card.

I did not expect much hope after updating from 10.3.2 to 10.3.3 but just for the heck of it I plugged my speakers back into the revolution outputs and gave it a shot.
There is a very substantial improvement that I noticed. The clicks and pops are all but gone, I have not yet experienced a kernel panic while playing iTunes. I would have by now.

As far as the rear speaker output it has improved quite a bit. I do believe that this is the way that the card is supposed to operate. All vocals are outputted VIA the front three speakers and the rear speakers just output instruments but the volume is the same as the front. The sound is very much different with this update. For the good...

I am using the same drivers (M-audio revo-1.2.9) as I was in 10.3.2. The only problem that I noticed with 10.3.3 is that if classic is opened and used, after trying to quit classic the sound will quit. If the revolution interface control is opened the sound will return. Not really a big deal as I do not use classic hardly at all.

As far as Apple DVD Player I do not see any surround sound being outputted at least with an analog setup.
VLC media player does however try to provide me with surround sound. It is kind of hit and miss as I can hear some different sounds coming from some speakers but when someone speaks in the movie there is no sound coming from them. I may be doing something wrong with it. I guess I will just play with it and see if I can get it working properly.

As far as the rest of the 10.3.3 update I do not notice any other problems. I guess I can again enjoy using this card.
-Jerry "

If any other Rev. 7.1 owner is running 10.3.3, let me know if you've seen improvements also.

(info from Jan, 2002 follows) Reader Feedback on 1.2.9 Driver Update (most recent first)
BTW - Please include Mac model/hardware info and OS version used in reports. Thanks.

Apparently the 1.2.9 driver update didn't help everyone with the issue of kernel panics:

"Mike, Just thought you might want to check this thread out on discussions.apple.com (one of mine) I picked up a Revo. card from OWC for my B&W).
I thought I would be immune from any kernel panics due to a) Not having a G4/G5. It seemed that most KPs were Altivec related (or so I thought, due to DSP related items), b) Starting from "scratch" - I already had 10.3.2 installed and only used the 1.2.9 drivers; I assumed that having a "clean slate" might help. I guess not.

I already mailed M-Audio my kernel panic log off their support website.
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@119.dCzbaq4zqJT.1@.599e0474
Dimitrios"

10.3.2 Update Helps w/Kernel Panics?

(added Dec. 18th, 2003)
" Hello Mike, I guess by now you are probably sick of hearing from me .... (he had sent several mails in the past - see below) Well it seems like I have good news.
I checked your site this evening (wednesday) at around 8:30 PM and saw that the OS 10.3.2 update was out. I downloaded it and installed it. I then repaired my permissions, dumped my system cache, ran MacJanitor, checked my hard disc for errors (none present) and completely wiped my system of the Revolution 1.2.7 drivers. I then installed the Revolution 1.2.9 drivers.
At first SRS feature was not working but after logging out and back in again all features of the sound card worked. I did not notice any clicks or pops when changing settings within the control panel. But the biggest thing I have not noticed for the past couple of hours are KERNEL PANICS! All features of SRS enabled except for bass mgmt. I really do not like what it does to the sound.

That's right two hours running iTunes, DVD player, Quicktime and no kernel panics. I even tried to induce them by constantly clicking on settings and minimizing windows to try and make one happen. NONE.
Hopefully this will be the end to the problem. I thought this was the case as M-Audio left the 1.2.9 drivers on their site. I figured that 10.3.2 had something to do with allowing compatability with this card and drivers. Just in case you are wondering if Apple changed anything to the audio files in this 10.3.2 update see below (his mail included a very very long list of changed files - too long to include here)
I really do not know what these files do except that I now have a clean sounding and Panic free software. I will let you know if things change.
-Jerry "

(added Dec. 18th, 2003)
" Hi Mike. Just wanted to drop a little note about the Revolution 1.2.9 drivers and the OS 10.3.2 update. I've had solid performance so far except for using DVD player. My system seems to hang if it sits at the DVD menu at the beginning of discs for an extended period of time (oops, sometimes I fall asleep while watching a movie!)
I hope this issue can get resolved as it is the only problem I'm having now with my Revolution card. G4 dual 1.25 MDD FW 800 1.25 GB RAM
-Jim "

(added Dec. 16th, 2003)
" Hello Mike,
Just a quick update from the weekend. I was using the revo 1.2.9 drivers and disabled the SRS features and also the bass mgmt. My system was fairly stable but even with everything turned off I still had a KP on Sat. I just went back to the 1.2.7 drivers which are much more stable on my Powermac. The 1.2.7 drivers work much better for me even though I only get two channel sound. I hope that 10.3.2 will address this and that may be all it takes as I read that a developer was using the 1.2.9 drivers with 10.3.2 and all was working well. -Jerry "

(added Dec. 15th, 2003)
" Hi Mike. I just wanted to let you and others know that I have been experiencing kernel panics while using DVD player quite frequently with the 1.2.9 drivers for the Revolution card. My system just freezes (not like a typical panic), resulting in having to force a hard shutdown. I use the digital output for DVD playback via DVD player. It must be a problem with the digital output.
G4 dual 1.25 MDD FW 800. 1.25 GB RAM, Radeon 9000 pro, OS 10.3.1
No other problems, however. But I never use any of the DSP features. -Jim "

(added Dec. 15th, 2003)
" Hi Mike. Just wanted to let you know that I've been having trouble with the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 1.2.9 drivers on my G4 dual 1.25 MDD FW 800 OS 10.3.1. I've had frequent crashes/Kernel panics while using a variety of programs, but most often with Apple's DVD player using the digital output (crashes nearly every time). When using the analog ouput, before a crash, it often sounds like a clipping in the audio output before the system goes down (which other readers have noted in the past). BTW: I don't use DSP at all. I'm going to try backing down to 1.2.8 which I had much better luck with. Hope this gets ironed out.

(he previously wrote) Just crashed while playing Wolfenstein Multiplayer, analog output. I can't tolerate this card making my system so unstable much longer. Actually, I'm pulling it now... Until I know this card won't crash my system, it stays out.
Very irritated... -Jim "

(added Dec. 15th, 2003 - 3rd report/update from this user)
" Well even this release 1.2.9 turned out to be a real bummer. I am getting a KP every 20-25 mins. With all the DSP things turned off and all System sounds and volume feedback turned off. Tried everything mentioned on this site. Still loads of KP's. Seems like a good hardware is turning nuts.
It boils down to two things, either the M-audio guys can't fix the problem or something wrong somewhere with Apple Audio extensions. Somebody do something :( This is really annoying!!!
Mac OS 10.3.1 on a Dual 800 Quicksilver with 1 GIG RAM.
Aditya A. "

(added Dec. 12th, 2003)
" (I asked a reader that had reported problems/Kernel Panics if he tried disabling the DSP features (tip that helped two others -see below))
I do not have any of the DSP features enabled. And also I got one KP in last 28 hrs. So maybe that was related to something else? Cant say now. I will have to wait a watch. Will keep you updated.
Aditya "

(added Dec. 12th, 2003)
" In regards to the Revolution sound card from m-audio, I am using it in a 1.25GHz x2 MDD FW400 model G4 running 10.3.1. It is located in the PCI slot adjacent to the Radeon 9000 PRO video card. Furthermore there is an Adaptec SCSI PCI card and an OrangeMicro USB/FireWire PCI card installed.

I ran disk permissions then shut down the computer, installed the card in slot indicated above and restarted. The computer hung at the blue screen and I did the power button shut down/restart thing. This time it appeared to hang on the blue screen again but just as I was reaching for the power button, the startup box appeared (albeit extremely brief) and all appeared normal. Ran the 1.2.9 driver installer, then disk permissions (none required it said). (RP checks std Apple installed package/receipts I think, other than for common files like those installed by ATI driver updates, it probably won't actually check permissions on 3rd party/non-standard driver files.)
I shut down the computer and connected my 2.1 speakers and digital coaxial cable running to the Onkyo A/V Receiver in another room. Restarted and it hung at the blue screen for several minutes (like before) then the startup box appeared very briefly and all appeared normal. Just out of curiosity I ran disk permissions again. It indicated none required.
Launched System Preferences -> Sound and selected "Revolution Digital Out". Ran iTunes the Onkyo was getting a good signal, all is well there. Back to System Preferences -> Sound and select "Revolution Analog 7.1 Out" go to the Revolution control panel and select "2.1 w/Discrete Subwoofer". Bass Management is checked and the crossover set to 60 Hz. Everything seems okay. Sound plays through and I believe the speakers actually sound better. No kernal panics whatsoever.

My only concern is the incredibly long time it takes to startup now. What used to last 18 seconds now takes over a minute.
Of course I could try shuffling the PCI cards around to see if it makes a difference but for the moment I'm going to enjoy the new sound.

On a final note it would be nice if the Digital out option did not over ride all other audio outputs.
Jeff "

(added Dec. 12th, 2003)
" Mike, I was reading the latest reports from readers regarding Kernel Panics with the Revo 7.1 card and DSpP settings. I just wanted to let you know that I have not had ANY problems with the Revo card WITH DSP settings enabled. Here is the details of my setup:

Original G4 450 AGP (Sawtooth) Revision 1 (no support for dual processors)
Upgraded to OWC Mercury Extreme 1.0 GHZ / 2MB SDR L2 Cache (not overclocked, can be issues for some due to L3 cache timings)
ATI Radeon 8500 AGP Video Card
1GB RAM (CL 2-2-2, ALL)
Acard 6280M Ultra ATA 133 (not raid version 6880M)
2 Seagate Barracuda 80 GB with 8MB Cache
2 Western Digital 60 GB 2MB Cache
Revolution 7.1 PCI Card
Logitech Z-640 5.1 Analog Surround speakers (For gaming and Computer room)
Coaxial Digital Cable connected to Sony ES Reciever (for Home theater to T.V.)
Panther 10.3.2 7D15

(I think I know whats going on here, 10.3.1 has some issues with core audio, changes noted on install of 10.3.2 7D15, can't recall what but let others know that 10.3.2 official will probably help)

I have Circle Surround II enabled, Bass Management OFF, SRS Dialog Clarity ENABLED, SRS True Bass ENABLED.
Itunes, no Kernel Panics, no clicks or pops, everything smooth as butter.
DVD Player, No clicks or pops, no Kernel Panics, smooth as butter as well.
NO Computer LOCK-UPS whatsoever
I did a clean install of Panther not an upgrade or update. I have attached screenshots of the Revo Control Panel.
Thanks again for such a wonderful site. I hope others can sort this out.
Happy holidays,
Jeff B. "

I wish I knew why some had problems and others not - but the disable DSP tip helped someone that had kernel panics in iTunes and the DVD Player (not with QT movie playback or other use he said) and had done literally every other tip to no avail. He said disabling the DSP features solved it (and fixed the noise he was hearing). Maybe system config specific - or like many OS X issues that are not repeatable by everyone - there's something else that's a factor (OS addon/hardware/etc.) in the problem that is not readily apparent.

(reports added Dec. 11th follow)

"Hello Mike, (once again)
I was close to a complete Format and Install (including zero data on my 80 G HD.) I thought this would give the 1.2.9 drivers a chance. I really did not want to go to this extreme but this has become a personal issue for me now. Nothing and I mean nothing is giving me problems other than these revolution drivers. (he later added) What seems funny to me is that I can play all the Quicktime movie trailers I want and access audio VIA my browser Safari, and no panics at all even having the revo card set to 5.1 surround. It seems only iTunes or my Apple DVD plaver causes it. (see his previous problem report two posts down below) I just did a super clean install on September 24th with the release of Panther.
So.......at around 12:55 I decided to see if you had updated your website....and low and behold I saw the latest tip from one of your readers:

"(comments from an earlier report below)
No problems so far. If anyone is having lingering issues with KP's though, I'd recommend turning off all the DSP features, like bass control and surround sound. Those are what seem to cause the kernel panics. .. They are also responsible for the massive amounts of cracking and noise that some users complain about. That's just a consequence of DSP, and more often than not, it makes music sound awful, anyway. Just turn on bass management and listen to a piano track if you don't believe me.
--Damien S. "

I did exactly as he (Damien S.) said and I opened up iTunes and I knew right off the bat that this is the underlying problem. You see no clicks, pops ,or distortion of any kind. I have been running iTunes for an hour now with bass mgmt. turned off and also all aspects of SRS turned off and no KP's at all...

Now I know that those who purchased this card do not want to hear this but it is the only thing working for me right now. Maybe those who are not having problems are using digital out. Maybe they have their settings the same as Damien.S suggested.

Anyhow I guess I will hold off on the clean install for the time being. It seems all issues are associated within this card/driver.
Thanks for helping me with this problem and have a great holiday season.
-Jerry "

" No problems so far. If anyone is having lingering issues with KP's though, I'd recommend turning off all the DSP features, like bass control and surround sound. Those are what seem to cause the kernel panics. (there was also a KP tip in the previous news page from a user of the older drivers - see Dec. 8th and Dec 5th news page) They are also responsible for the massive amounts of cracking and noise that some users complain about. That's just a consequence of DSP, and more often than not, it makes music sound awful, anyway. Just turn on bass management and listen to a piano track if you don't believe me.
--Damien S. "

Damien's tip (disabling DSP) solved Jerry's problems (see his long report just below this one) as he noted in the update above. If anyone else with KP's also finds this helped (or if you're not having problems and it's always been disabled), let me know.

" (his first email)
Just a quick update about the 1.2.9 Revolution drivers. I just this morning saw that they were out.
I completely trashed all that was associated with the 1.2.7 drivers that were on my machine.
Upon loading the 1.2.9 drivers I had only two channel sound but as soon as I dumped my system cache and repaired my permissions total 5.1 SRS sound appeared. It is too early to tell but so far so good. It looks like the 1.2.9 drivers are on the right path as I have not had a kernel panic in over two hours. I did at one point shortly after installing the drivers and before I repaired my permissions have a "glitch" in which the audio was "shuttering" as to say, and my machine locked up similar to a hard freeze in OS 9. I had to reboot. But no kernel panic was reported in my logs. I would have had one by now with the 1.2.8 drivers.
I will let them run for a few days and keep you informed
But he later wrote problems appeared)
Hello Mike,
I am getting kernel panics galore with the 1.2.9 drivers. I was happy after I emailed you this morning with gleaming hope that this problem was solved. It was short lived. I tried everything I could do to stop them but once again nothing works. I sent Alan at M-Audio all the panic logs and information.
The funny thing is that if I do not use iTunes or Apple DVD player I will not get any kernel panics. (...I can play all the Quicktime movie trailers I want and access audio VIA my browser Safari, and no panics at all even having the revo card set to 5.1 surround.) It seems only iTunes or my Apple DVD plaver causes it.
As soon as I open iTunes and let it play I get pops and clicks from the speakers and then wham! The computer freezes up and audio just shutters. The thing acts like a hard freeze in OS 9. But not all the time, some of the panics just spewed many awful black lines of text on the screen and others were polite and told me in different languages to restart my computer.
Oh well back to the proverbial drawing board
Jerry
(he later wrote with more comments, mac model, etc. details)
Yes, I have tried everything that has been written on the internet about these drivers since OS 10.2.7
. I have proved to myself that while not using iTunes or Apple DVD player I will NEVER get a panic. As soon as I play iTunes, DVD Player the sound becomes clicky, poppy, distorted with static and then the Panic will occur. I have been on the net for 5 hrs. today with the 1.2.9 drivers installed went to all kinds of sound sites playing music through my browser and nothing just clean sound, but as soon as iTunes is fired up, the panic comes in full force a few short minutes later. I am still trying and have not yet lost my will to give up

I am using a Dual G4 Gigabite ethernet 450 Mhz. 1.5 G Ram OS 10.3.1 and a Creative Labs analog 5.1 dolby surround system attached to the revo card.
Yes. I ran all the tests from the hardware disk. (Apple HW Test CD including RAM tests - to see if flaky ram or other system component could be a factor.)
Alan from M-audio told me that the SRS is very altivec intensive. It seems that Apple I believe in OS 1.2.7 or 1.2.8 changed the way audio was handled in preparation for OS X Panther. It seems my problems started about that time.
But even now that theory goes down the drain as I get panics with SRS disabled.
It does have somthing to do with prefs but what I still do not know.
-Jerry "

" Just wanted to give you an update on my Revolution issues. Since the 1.2.8 driver release everything was fixed for me (Original G4 450 Sawtooth with upgraded processor, OWC Mercury Extreme 1.0Ghz Model) with the exception of random pops and clicks. Since the 1.2.9 update you posted info on, (thanks by the way) everything is fixed including the pops and clicks. I can now enjoy this card to it's fullest, even the Digital passthrough. This card ROCKS now, flawless is all I can say. Thanks M-Audio!
Oddly enough I never experienced ANY Kernel panics as others have reported. Thanks again for the AWESOME site and resource for Macintosh users.
Sincerely, Jeff B. "

" A note about the new (1.2.9) M-Audio drivers:
I haven't used them enough to see how the kernel panics are working, but I still only see the two stereo channels after installing them on my main drive, nothing else. Even on a clean 10.3 install (firewire drive, default easy install off of the 10.3 media, no updates or 3rd party items installed other than the M-audio drivers, totally clean install) it doesn't do anything. Sounds to me like something is fubar'd in their Panther compatibliity updating...
Andy "

There was a tip for this from users of the previous drivers noted in the Dec. 5th news page. A 1.2.9 drivre report above also noted

"I had only two channel sound but as soon as I dumped my system cache and repaired my permissions total 5.1 SRS sound appeared..."

(updated with later report noting a KP)" Just installed the M-audio Revolution 1.2.9 Driver after seeing at your site that it was available. Seems to be running fine now. No probs yet after 8 Hours of running. Haven't tested surround features since I do not have surround speakers, but otherwise seems rock solid
Aditya A.
he later wrote)
Ok, Spoke too soon? Got one kernel Panic today. But running fine though.
My config:
PowerMac Dual 800 with 1 GB RAM
Mac OS 10.3.1 "

I asked if he tried the disabling DSP tip noted above.

(Copy of the Dec. 9th news page posting on the update and first reader report follows)
I don't own a Revolution 7.1 card personally, but over the last month there's been many reports here of Kernel Panics (and some noted only 2-channel audio) from owners of the card as well as several reader tips on those issues. Tonight a reader sent a note there's a driver update (1.2.9) that is said to fix both problems:

" Just a line revolution 1.2.9 Drivers are out and they fix the kernel panics and the rear channel loss. Mine works great now in my dual G5.
Shawn "

I searched the M-Audio Drivers page (selecting Revolution and OS X 10.3) and the 1.2.9 driver update is linked/listed with the following notes:

" Release Notes:
-Kernel extension loading problem fixed.
-10.3 (Panther) support

The Dec. 4th posted date there I assume is a typo.