Radeon PCI Reports:
(added 4/17/2002)
"
Installed the March 2002 Retail Update yesterday on my G3 upgraded 8500 running a PCI Radeon. Didn't
notice any speed increase in Quake 2, but Unreal Tournament seems a bit more responsive. I only have a 400MHz CPU so this will be the limiting factor for me.
However, a bug in MacDraft I reported earlier to ATI is now gone. Previously if you selected any of the drawing tools and before you actually used the tool, moved it around on the screen, random stray dots appeared on the drawing surface. This does not happen anymore.
Thank you ATI!
"
(added 4/11/2002)
"
Hi there, I just wanted to tell you that after installing this update (besides everything running well with the OS itself) I ran a quick Quake II (FruitzOfDojo- latest OS X version) time demo and my fps had shot up from a paultry 34fps to a more acceptable 48fps! Even before seeing the numerical result the demo was noticeably smoother and displayed a lot more frames whereas before it was noticeably choppy. This still doesn't really compare to the 59.8fps I'd get on average in the latest OS 9 version but it's a hell of a lot better.
My setup: Blue G3/500/384MB RAM/MacOS X.1.3/Retail RadeonPCI in 66MHz slot and a SWEEET Razer Boomslang 2000 (sorry, HAD to throw that in!)
Peace!
Ralph
PS for those who don't know, the commands for running the Quake II timedemo are:
timedemo 1
demomap demo1.dm2"
(Reader FYI - this info on FPS testing in Quake2, Quake1, Quake3, UT, etc.
is also in the FAQ's Game and Game Controllers section. Way down the
list of Questions there since it's info posted for several years now.)
(added 4/10/2002)
"
Hi Mike,
...I've yet to do
much testing, altho hopefully I'll have time for some more tomorrow.
For now:
Beige G3 w/450Mhz/1Mb OWC Mercury ZIF @ 466Mhz, 512Mb RAM, PCI Radeon
OS X (10.1.3)
====
ATIRadeon.kext 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeon8500.kext 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeonDVDDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeonGA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeonGLDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128.kext 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128DVDDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GLDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GLDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRageProGA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATITVOut.kext 1.0.1-> 1.0.1 (altho modification date has changed)
Interesting that the RagePro Graphics Acceleration plugin has been
updated altho whether any actual code has changed is doubtful (no
difference on my 6Mb on-board RagePro, still unrecognised). At least ATI
are keeping the RagePro stuff in the code-base leaving the doors open
for some support in the future, altho as time goes on this becomes more
unlikely. Also the ATITVOut kernel extension has been modified, but the
version number not changed. It's nice that the ATI Displays app fully
supports the Radeon now with the DVD and Mac2TV controls.
I've had a quick look at FSAA on the OttoMatic demo and it's looking
good, not quite up to what I remember the V5 managed, but given the
different techniques used that's not surprising. [For 8500s that support
TruForm, that makes a very noticeable different in OttoMatic as I
noted in my Radeon 8500 review. I think TruForm could be far more
beneficial than FSAA in my opinion.-Mike] Hopefully this form of
FSAA will be implemented in more games (both new ones and older releases
via patches) and the next version of OpenGL will have shader support for
those lucky enough to have 8500's!
All the best,
ben
"
Radeon PCI + GeForce2MX AGP Owner Report:
(added 4/10/2002)
"
Mike-
I attempted (twice) to install this update on my 533DP G4 running MacOS 10.1.3
without success. I have a dual-monitor setup with the OEM Geforce2 MX AGP card
(17in ADC CRT display) and a Radeon Mac Edition PCI card (ColorSync 750 display
via VGA). The updater installs only the ATI utility application (big whoopee), a
scriptlet in the utility folder that I cannot deduce the function of, and the
readme file. Despite having a laundry list of X files that are supposed to be
updated, none of the System files were touched. The installer appears to know
it's doing nothing, because it doesn't ask for a restart when completed. As this
is a Mindvision installer, I am not able to peek inside the installer package to
check what components are there and compare the versions of the components to
what is already there.
Craig
I asked if he tried with the ATI card's display being the
primary (menu bar) monitor and he later wrote
Mike-
Here's the followup. I retested this in a number of different ways last night,
and still no joy.
1) set menubar to ATI screen before install
2) set menubar to ATI screen, logout, login and install
3) run Vise installer as root using Pseudo repeating #1 and #2 above
4) set menubar to ATI screen and login with startup items disabled (shift key)
5) set menubar to ATI screen and reboot before installing
The installer fails after authenticating ATI part 2 with 16 items remaining to
install, although it then says the installation completed successfully each
time. The installer logfile just shows the utilities being installed and none of
the components. The installed ATI display utility does identify the card
properly.
The only things I didn't do were attempt this in single user mode, moving the
Radeon card to a different PCI slot, and pulling the Geforce card. I doubt
single user will accomplish anything, and I'm not at all keen to crack the case
of the machine just to get a patch to run. It doesn't look like permissions are
messed up for any of the target files that should be replaced or the parent
directories. Sigh. I need to file this as a bug report with ATI-do you have a
contact for this?
Craig
"
I'll forward Craig's mail to my ATI contacts.
(added 4/10/2002)
"
Dear Mike,
I'm experiencing problems with the ATI March Update 2002.
My system is a beige G3 Mac upgraded with Newer G4 card running at 433MHz
with 576MB memory, Radeon PCI card and MacOS 9.2.2 US. Installing the update
froze my system. Reinstalling the former drivers v1.1.1,the problem
was gone. Conflict Catcher reported that the ATI Driver Extension
(v2.8.5) was
using more system heap that reqesting and that I should disable it
if I was experiencing any problems. The only way to avoid frozing the
system was to install the initial drivers.
Hi from Greece
-John A.
"
More Radeon PCI/Beige G3 owner reports:
(added 4/10/2002)
"
Dear Mike,
Currently I am running a Beige G3 desktop with an ati radeon pci in OS X
10.1.3. I notice smooth performace with this update. Very nice
performance and window resizing is smoother as well. Less hesitation on
window drawing/moving. Very glad I purchased the radeon pci for OS X use!
Christopher S."
(added 4/10/2002)
"
See if anyone reports this.
Radeon Mac Edition [not the 7000 I assume]
Beige G3
Has allowed me to run OS X on Beige G3 and I have been happy with that.
Installed March 2002 Retail Update (the new one) in both 9.2.1 and 10.1.3.
The image quality to me just wasn't as crisp-I have an excellent Trinitron
monitor.
Went back to Jan 2002 Retail Update in 9.2.1-images crisper again
(NOTE: The drivers that came with the Radeon Mac Edition never would
install: I tried the CD; copied the installer to a hard disk and tried
extensions on and extenions off, downloaded the same installer-in all cases
CRASHED. Fortunately, the Jan 2002 drivers installed.)
In OS X, it will be a task but I am tracking down everything in the
installation log and destroying and I have the original 10.1.3 drivers
safely on another computer to copy over.
I think Apple has a much better handle on ATI's own boards than ATI does.
[Actually ATI supplies drivers to Apple, always has
as far as I know.-Mike]
Sincerely, even if a minority report,
David"
Radeon PCI/B&W G3:
(added 4/10/2002)
"Blue & White G4 (ZIF upgraded)
896MB ram
Mac Radeon Edition PCI
OS X 10.1.3
The installation went well, but it took a while to reboot. The "One
Moment Please" window was on for a minute or so before the actual
reboot. Upon reboot, the computer seemed like it was going to work, but
froze with a gray screen. Flashing the PRAM 3 times in a row (I learned
this from Apple Tech Support) fixed the problem and everything works
great now.
Tommy
"
Zapping the pram (I always recommend at last 3 chimes before
releasing the keys) is an old tip when you see quirky things
after video card/driver updates, etc. (or even CPU upgrades, or
CDRW drive swaps sometimes.)
Radeon 7000 PCI/B&W G3s:
(added 4/11/2002)
"
Hey Mike :)
System Specs:
B&W G3/400 (rev. 2)
Radeon 7000 PCI (replaced OEM Rage128)
896MB ram
OS X 10.1.3 exclusive
19" KDS Avitron primary
15" Sony Multiscan 15sx secondary (on DVI port with included ATI adapter)
Update ran smoothly with the exception of idling upon clicking "reboot". It
didn't "freeze up" as I could still right click on the icon in the dock and
have the various options available. However quitting the application didnŐt
do anything. After a force quit I re-ran the installation again (to be
safe). This time my options were "continue" and "quit"...the "reboot"
button had disappeared. After a reboot everything went fine.
I've read reports of the 2nd display having "fuzzy" text, however I have
never seen this, before nor after the update.
Quicktime would play a rather large mpeg (vcd) file around 10fps before the
update, after in the high 20's, provided I didn't adjust the brightness or
contrast, which dropped back to the previous frame rates. While the driver
update did help improve playback drastically, I also suspect the CPU is a
major factor here. Windows Media Player playback gained a very much needed
performance boost...if you discount the video quality, the speed was right
up there with Quicktime...amazing :)
DVD playback hasn't seemed to change, however (and I have no clue if this
was the case before the update) playing a DVD full screen on the primary
works fine...until I click on a window on the secondary monitor. DVD Player
then exits full screen, opting for it's largest windowed size. While this
may be intentional, it's a tad bit inconvenient, as I would love to browse
the web or check email on the 15" while watching a movie full screen on the
other. I guess I'm just picky like that :)
I don't use iTunes visuals very often, so I can't report on any performance
issues.
I'm also not a gamer, however I do play The Sims, which gained a decent
speed boost. That could be because of the reboot after the update and not
the update itself (I only reboot when an update requires it).
Brent R.
http://www.damaged.net/~buzzcut/
"
(added 4/10/2002)
"
So far, so good.
Installed the update on Blue + White Rev.2 with XLR8 G4/500 and Radeon
7000, PCI obviously on both OSX 10.1.3 and 9.2.2 on separate partitions.
Update went fine first time on both systems. Seems a little smoother in
most apps, particularly in IE on OSX.
Peter L
"
And another B&W G3/7000 Card owner report:
(added 4/10/2002)
"
Hi Mike,
I'm running a Blue and White G3 rev 1 350Mhz machine with a Radeon
7000. It enables adaptive deinterlacing for DVD playback under OS X
(previously only available under OS 9). Other than that, there don't
seem to be any differences in performance, but no problems as well.
Jeff"
Radeon 7000 PCI/PowerMac 7500:
(added 4/10/2002)
"
PowerMac 7500
G3/266 on XLR8 MPe card
OS 9.1
OS 10.1.2; 10.1.3 right through Java update and the latest security update
XPostFacto 2.1.1 and the new beta version. Can boot between 9 and X, reboot in X flawlessly
Radeon 7000 PCI with new (March 2002) drivers
NO GO in OS X.
Installed drivers before card, CUDA, PRAM, etc., re-installed drivers after
card; adapter on onboard video, adapter off, no internal VRAM-JUST NO GO
Otherwise great system, I have burned CDRs at 24X through Firewire on this
setup
David S."
There's been an issue noted with the 7000 daul output card and OS X
in Beige G3 and older machines since mid-January here on the 7000 owner reports
page (acknowledged by ATI). Again I hear an OS X update will be required to fix
this issue.
Radeon 7000 PCI/Beige G3:
"
Hi Mike,
I have a Radeon 7000 in my Beige G3. The March update seems to work
fine, and even improves performance. In the Quake 3 1.30 time demo I scored
8 or 9 FPS higher after the update. Funny thing about the FSAA though. In
Red Faction it seemed to greatly slow down the game, and the main menu
wouldn't even load under 4x FSAA.
With no FSAA enabled it ran normally
(800x600, 32-bit for all settings). QuickTime performance shows no change,
either negative or positive. The dual-monitor support still works (I had
installed the 8500 update). That's about all I have to report.
Will G.
"
Radeon 7000 PCI/Beige G3:
"
Hi Mike, I have a Radeon 7000 in my Beige G3. The March update seems to work
fine, and even improves performance. In the Quake 3 1.30 time demo I scored
8 or 9 FPS higher after the update. Funny thing about the FSAA though. In
Red Faction it seemed to greatly slow down the game, and the main menu
wouldn't even load under 4x FSAA. With no FSAA enabled it ran normally
(800x600, 32-bit for all settings). QuickTime performance shows no change,
either negative or positive. The dual-monitor support still works (I had
installed the 8500 update). That's about all I have to report.
Mark S.
"
I don't know what his problem is but I cannot repeat this here -
I installed the update, opened PShop 5.5 (runs in classic) and did a 'file open'
- hit the scroll arrow, etc. - no image oddities.
Radeon 7000 PCI/Beige G3:
(added 4/9/2002)
"
Beige G3/500
OS 9.2.1
768mb ram
ATI Radeon 7000
ATI's newest driver update seems to have killed Unreal support. I have
tried Unreal 1.0, 2.2.4b1 and 2.2.4b7.
All three versions will either
1) Crash with Error 2 when using software rendering
2) fail to display any kind of picture when using Glide support (can
quit back to finder) Note: Glide mode is for 3dfx cards only-Mike
3) completely lock up the system when using the Rave mode (requires
complete system reboot)
Haven't tried anything else with the card yet.
Joel
He later wrote
Here is a followup to my earlier email.
I have tried Unreal and SixtyForce 0.6.0 with the new software update.
As long as either program runs in windowed mode, they are fine. but if I
try to run them in full screen, then I start having the problems I
mentioned earlier.
"
Radeon 7000 PCI (assume Beige G3):
(added 4/9/2002)
"
No beige G3 Radeon 7000 Mac edition OS X support!
Not for me anyway. I have tried the "remove other driver" trick but no
luck !
Keeping the card and waiting ...
BR / JG
"
(He didn't note his System details - I'm assuming a Beige G3 or earlier Mac.) Back in January here the 7000 reports page noted the issue with Beige G3 (and earlier macs) with OS X and a dual head card like the 7000. The info I have (as I said several times before) is that an OS X fix will be needed to address this.
iBook Reports:
(added 4/12/2002)
"
I installed the ATI driver update on my 500 MHz iBook with Rage 128 Mobility the day it came out. At first, I didn't notice any problems (or enhancements for that matter). But recently, I tried to play Star Trek Voyager Elite Force and the Sims Livin' Large, but had problems. Elite Force wouldn't fully load, and The Sims froze in the middle of the game, force quitting solved both of these problems.
To try and fix this, I logged out and in again, but no go. Also, I noticed that while logging out, the menu bar turned the OS X blue color, and the dock reverted to just the background. So, I reloaded the old ATI drivers from the backup I made sure to do, restarted, and now everything seems to be working fine. So, keep those old ATI drivers around, you may need them.
Mike V."
(added 4/11/2002)
it has made os 10.1.3 so much smoother, genie effect, dock, multiple windows and screen redraw in apps that use OpenGL heavily on my 500MHz ibook dual usb 192mb ram ATI mobility Rage 128 2xAGP
Ed J.
Graphic Designer/Digital Manager
"
(added 4/11/2002)
I installed the update last night on my 2000 Firewire
iBook SE (Rage 128 Mobility) running OS X 10.1.3. As
far as I've been able to tell, it did help. Scrolling
seems to be faster and graphics seem to paint faster in
Internet Explorer (once they're rendered off-screen).
Of course, I haven't run any objective tests, so my
observations are entire subjective. However, I have
definitely seen no ill effects.
Alan S.
"
PowerBook G4 Reports: (most recent first)
Just a FYI - I installed the driver update in OS 9 and OS X on a PowerBook G4/667.
I tested DVD playback in OS 9.2.2 and OS X 10.1.3 - I see no problems at all
(no varying brightness, no blocks in the image, etc. - even after running
an OpenGL game like Quake3). I verifed that the drivers were installed
although the "ATI Monitor" was not shown as a startup item after the install
on my PB G4. (It is for desktops, at least with the 8500 AGP card.) I'm not
sure why some reported DVD player issues after this update. I do not have any
3rd party OS X appearance/utilities, etc. installed however and the only
OS X startup item I have (shown in the login panel) is the Itunes one.
(added 4/11/2002)
"
Hi Mike,
I installed the new drivers on my TiPowerbook 667 (rev.b- Rage M6). I'm
running OSX 10.1.3
No problems that I can tell. I tested the video out (using the
sVideo-->composite adaptor-->TV) and it works. Looks like there are more
options on my TV for PAL and NTSC. I have a Panasonic XFSeries TV and
the new drivers show lots of resolutions:
My TV didn't work with any of the PAL resolutions (I had hopes I could
get the TV to work with a restart when it detected the while the
computer put out PAL signal, but no go.)
I opened the system profiler and looked at my ATI extensions:
I still can't watch a DVD on the second monitor (e.g. tv) unless I put
the menubar on it and then start the DVD player. That's a bit kludgy. I
hope it can be fixed. But shift the Menubar over and the DVD starts
right up on the TV.
I watched a DiVX on my TV, worked fine in QT full screen on the TV
monitor. Subjectively it seemed cleaner than it used to, but not
dramatically.
Scrolling long text documents/pages in OmniWeb seems significantly
faster.
Unreal Tournament seems faster. Just running around I'm getting around
65 fps average (widely varying of course). I haven't benched it with a
standard demo, but it does seem faster. Nose against a wall my peak
frames go to 95 now when before it seemed more limited. Beginning fly
through fps peak around 114.
One visual oddity- the grenade launcher just shows a progressing series
of semi transparent black squares instead of a smoke trail. Strange bug.
[I've seen this for years with OpenGL UT and both Nvidia and ATI cards
- not a problem with Rave mode that I have seen.-Mike]
---
Some older info-(Using the old Video drivers and 10.1.3):
Last weekend I hooked the Powerbook up to a friend's HDTV (ProScan, I
think). We used the SVGA second monitor port from the Powerbook. Popped
in some DVDs.
WOW! It is an amazing difference. Running Princess Mononoke at 800x600
progressive is phenomenally better than a regular interlaced TV. Same
with stuff like the Matrix and Pixar films. The picture quality is much
more stable and linework is much cleaner. We all immediately experienced
TV envy. :-)
We also played Unreal Tournament on the 36" HDTV. Utterly decadent.
Worked beautifully, except UT would crash on start if it didn't find the
network. Found this out the hard way when we discovered a loose
ethernet cable would cause a crash on start. Probably just needed to
change the settings.
I can hardly wait till HDTV's mature as a standard. Apparently you can
get ones like what we were watching for around $800 now (they list
around $1500 if I recall correctly). At that rate they are tempting even
if all it's really good for is watching DVDs.
Hope you haven't covered this all to death on a day I missed. :-)
Ashby
"
(added 4/11/2002)
"
I have a 550MHz PowerBook G4 Ti. With the new ATI drivers, everything seems
fine except for DVD playback. The DVD plays, but the video brightness goes
from dim to bright and then back to dim on 10 second intervals. Restoring
the old drivers fixed the problem.
Mike G.
"
(added 4/9/2002)
"Hey. I have a G4 PB TI, 500Mhz with the ATI Rage[128] Mobility 8 MB (of course
all factory built from Apple). I noticed you said this update would work on
non-retail cards, so I gave it a shot and it works great.
I have a dual
monitor set-up in my office with a Viewsonic P810 21" monitor and I have to
admit everything looks crisper in OS 10.1.3. The dock animations are more
fluid and there isn't any more ghosting of open folders on the desktop. I
guess the update wasn't really made for my setup but it has been great so
far.
Matthew M.
"
