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The G3 Zone banner - troubleshooting tips, compatibility notes, and upgrade reviews/tutorials for the Apple G3

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G3-ZONE Archived News Page

This is the older news page of the G3-ZONE, the main page is here. For general Mac daily news, reviews of systems/cpu upgrades/video cards/storage and more, see the main Accelerate Your Mac! web site.

I created the G3-ZONE to cover all aspects of getting the most performance, reliability and compatibility from your G3 system. Check the links to the left and the page tabs above for specific topic areas and articles. If you would like to contribute a review/tutorial or have comments, please contact me.

Contents

..B&W G3 Info!
....Tips,Specs,Info
....Performance
....Speed Settings
....Compatibility
....Game Perf.
....Rage128 Feedback
....Int.Modem Tips

Beige G3 Info:
..Troubleshooting
....Pwr Supply
....Startup Problems
....Hard Drive
....RAM Modules
....CDROM Problems
....Networking
....Printing

..Compatibility
....Software
....Hardware
....SCSI Card Issues

..1st Upgrades
....Adding RAM
....Adding VRAM

.. Newer Tech G4 400Z
..XLR8 G4 400Z
..OWC 350/400 ZIFs
..Railgun 466MHz ZIF
..466MHz CPU Upgrade
..XLR8 400Z Upgrade
..400MHz CPU Upgrade
..366MHz CPU Upgrade

..Overclocking

Active CPU Cooling!

..More Upgrades
..B&W G3 IDE Slave HD
.....IDE Hard Disk
.....Internal Modem
.... Fan cooled heatsink
.... DT CPU Fan
.... 3Dfx Cooling Fan

..PowerBook G3
....Inside the PB G3
....RAM Upgrade
....PB G3 vs Solo PII

 

Archived News Page

G3 Price Cuts: Apple recently cut prices on the G3 line. The 300 MHz models had the biggest drop with reductions of $950-$1300 depending on configuration. Lower end models were reduced in price by $300-$400. The Apple store has the new prices in effect now.

If there's a Computer City near you, check it out. A reader said his local store had amazing blowouts on Mac software and hardware ( Quake for $5, SyJet 1.5GB Carts for $15...). Many stores are already sold out of Mac items however. [8/2/1998]


Cooling Tip: I don't recommend others do this but it did drop my G3/333 temperature from 60C to 52C. This reader claims even more improvement:

"Working with the heat of overclocking my g3 233. I took off the heatsink, scraped off the grey compound with fingernail, and applied thermal compound (available at radio shack) this reduced the core temp 20 degrees celcius according to powerlogix heat shareware app. the 233 MT is running at 70-140-280mhz, wouldn't run at 266 without removing the stock 32 dimm.
John" [8/1/1998]


IBM/Maxtor Drive Comments: A reader wrote in response to a post on the new 16GB IBM drives mentioned in the main site July 31st, 1998 news: " hi mike
i've installed one of these new IBM ATA-harddrives (DTTA-series) in my G3. they know why they don't list g3s in the compatibility-list: sometimes the drive gets mounted, sometimes not. i think it's because of the delay when the drive is spinning up, the mac gets a timeout... (g3s do stop the ATA-drives at every system-restart) nothing like that with the new ATA-drives from maxtor (they run faster and cooler than the IBMs) they are REALLY FAST, even faster than the UW-quantum-viking that came preinstalled from apple (about 10meg/sec read and write!) i just couldn't believe that an ATA-drive is able to deliever such a SPEED, but they do...
grtnx, michael"

As I've commented on before, IDE drives often consume more CPU cycle time than SCSI drives to maintain high xfer rates, especially if no DMA driver is used. Not sure what the G3 IDE controller supports but I have gotten good reports on Maxtor's new DiamondMax Plus drives (7200 rpm IDE) from Apple G3 owners, citing much better performance than the stock IDE drives. [7/31/1998]


G3 MB Jumpers: Here is some information from the forums on jumpers for G3 motherboards:

" In my previous post I mentioned that I had purchased "jumpers" from Radio Shack to overclock my G3 233. Radio Shack lists these jumpers as: Mini Shunt Shorting Jumpers (CAT NO 276-1512A). The jumpers were about $1.99 or $2.99 for a quantity of 10. They are a little snug between jumpers. But since you can get most of the configurations without more than three in a row, they usually fit."

PG G3 Display Cable: A PowerBook G3 owner that just had a repair for the screen cable problem sent the info on the cable: "part #: 922-3350, Description: Cbl, Flex, Ckt, 13.3", PBG3, Samsng." [7/28/1998]

PB G3/250 vs PII Gateway Solo: I've posted the results of application tests between the two notebooks in part two of my PB G3 vs Solo Comparison. Some surprising results. [7/23/1998]


Miro DC 20 Again: Lars Peterson writes that he's running a DC20 just fine on his Apple G3. He mentioned that possibly those reporting problems were not using the latest Miro software/plugins. His full story is on the Compatibility page. He also commented on a sound/disk issues he's seen. [7/21/1998]


Modem Speedup Tip?:
"Have you tried this setting for g3 internal desktop modem

Just go under the modem control panel and select Farallon Netopia 56K and watch it fly. on apples CORRECT modem setting i was getting 2k-3k, on many other settings i was getting 1k-2.5k, now i am getting 4k-5.5k, and it loads most pages 3 times faster according to my stop watch. its fast, verry fast, faster than my friends isdn it seems.

ps 3com impact isdn 56k works best w/global village platinum
john m"

I'm trying it as well on the PB G3 internal modem. It connected fine but did not report a connect rate - however it does seem fast and I have not had one disconnect so far!

PowerBook DVD Review: Steve Weisel sent a URL to a review of the PowerBook DVD drive kit. Check out http://www.macink.com/pbdvd.html. The images look Great!! [7/19/1998]


9600/400 vs. Apple G3/333:
I just modified a Mach 5 350 MHz card to run at 400 Mhz and ran a subset of my Applications Tests to compare performance. Even before the tests were run the 9600 seemed to be very do well. The results were still suprising in many ways.

The Apple G3 is a Rev 2 motherboard 300 MHz system with 1MB of backside cache, running at 333 MHz CPU speed, 222 Mhz cache speed (via PowerLogix's cache util) with a 66 MHz bus. The 9600/400 is a 350 MHz system overclocked to 400 MHz with a 50 MHz system bus. Both systems had OS 8.1 and similar extension set. Disk cache was set to 1MB.

Application Test

9600/400
(400/100/50)

Apple G3/333
(333/222/66)

Bryce 2 Alexandria II render

4:39

4:35

Bryce 2 Magical Knights I

3:30

3:23

After Effects 3.1 Movie

3:48

4:14

Adobe Premiere 4.2 Make Movie

0:47.66

0:39.96

Totals:

12:46.34

12:51.96

For other 96/8600 info see my Mach 5 systems page. [7/15/1998]

First Look: Road Rocket: I've posted a preview of the new IXMicro Road Rocket. It's the coolest addon I've seen for the new PowerBooks. It also won a Best of MacWorld Show award. [7/16/1998]


PowerBook G3 vs Gateway Solo PII: Check out the first of two parts of the review.

Road Rocket!: It's probably the most awesome looking PC card I've ever seen. The machined heatsink with "IX3D Road Rocket" lettering reminds me of my old M/T small block Chevy aluminum valve covers. Say hello to dual screen desktops (not mirrored!) on your new Powerbook G3!

I'll have a review posted by tomorrow but take a look at some pictures of the coolest PC Card ever made!

The Road Rocket is available now at the Apple Store and should ship to retailers in the next week says IXMicro. Suggested list price is $299. Best of Show winner at MacWorld. Check the IXMicro Road Rocket page for more information. [7/15/1998]

7/09/1998: PowerLogix ZIF CPU at MW: Robert Jagitsch of PowerLogix reports on their new G3 ZIF CPU upgrade at the MacWorld Show is " Running 333 Mhz, 222 backside 1Mb, MacBench score 1230, original PM G3 233 score 775.". Sounds like an awesome upgrade for 233 and 266 MHz Apple G3s. I'm still waiting for pricing and will have a review sample soon. "


7/07/1998: G3 Jumpers at Fry's: " Mike,
I just noticed that Fry's sells the .1" jumpers that can fit into the G3's for over-clocking. I bought 10 for $1, just to have on hand. Fry's had some of the 1mm jumpers mislabeled as .1", so tell your readers to look closely before buying.
Jim Downs "


7/02/1998: PowerLogix ZIF CPU upgrades! According to the press release, the PowerForce G3 ZIF offers up to five factors which increase performance over standard PowerMac G3 systems:

  1. Increased clock speed
  2. Increased backside cache speed
  3. Increased backside cache size
  4. Acceleration option
  5. Backside cache software control

Initially a 300mhz version will be offered with faster models available as soon as IBM/Motorola release new processors. The upgrades install with no modifications to jumper blocks required, and has a 30 day MBG and 3 year warranty. See www.powerlogix.com for more details.


7/01/1998: Bob Friede responded to the ramdisk shutdown issues (below):

"Hi Mike,
Having files in a RAMdisk at shutdown/restart causes me no problems at all. I use the application ramBunctious rather than the Mac OS for RAMdisk creation, keeping a 4Meg Netscape Cache folder there which regenerates itself after restarts."


6/29/1998: Carmine Pasquale sent a URL to a G3 All in One site at: http://members.aol.com/G3AIOGuy/


6/29/1998: G3 Control Strips: Tom Varela sent word of a new pair of G3 CPU/Cache control strips at: www.246.ne.jp/~kykz/english.html


6/26/1998: Inside the PowerBook G3: I've posted a illustrated tutorial to adding ram in the new PowerBooks called Inside the PowerBook G3. The opening page talks about the design, has photos the beast and later pages identify the internal components. It appears the PB G3/250 uses the same cache chips used by the G3/300.


6/23/1998: G3 Feedback: The final word (?) from a readers quest for answers on using IDE slave drives with early G3 systems and a few comments on the 11GB Maxtor drive and Pioneer 32X SCSI CDROM in a G3.

Michael Bosshard says his new G3/300 has a different design VRM (voltage regulator module) that seems responsible for cooler running according to his mail.

One reader commented on slower application performance that seemed to be related to support files for MS Internet Explorer 4. Read his story for all the details.

Carmine Anthony sent a note of a owner review of his G3 system.


6/22/1998: IDE Slaves in pre-Rev 2 G3s: Although some sites and even stores are claiming that IDE slave capability is possible in the early G3 systems a reader post in the main site news today indicates otherwise. My info shows a ROM change and system enabler (777) is required.


6/21/1998: Yamaha CDR/Apple G3 Feedback: More Feedback on the problem a reader reported using a internal Yamaha CDR in his G3:

" Hi Mike:
The problem with the Yamaha internal CD-R burner and the Apple G3 is unrelated to temperature fluctuation [Didn't think so], but rather can be attributed to vibration eminating from the cooling fans and other moving parts within the casing.

I own a Yamaha 4260 CD-R burner external and made quite a few coasters before I diagnosed the problem. As you know I have a G3 minitower and I put the Yamaha right on top of the minitower to conserve space. It seems though that in this location, alot of vibration is transmitted to the burner and therefore, you get buffer under runs and ultimately botched disks. The solution to the problem is put the burner on a stable platform such as a table or floor, but definitely not on top of a computer. All CD-R burners are notoriously susceptible to vibration.

In addition, I also experimented with putting the burner inside the G3 which worked fine. No problems here, but my Minitower is on a rug which does absorb at least some of the vibration.
-Ben Chi "

"Mike
I don't have a G3, but I do have a Yamaha 400 internal on my 9600. I never really had any trouble with it except some 'noisy' burnt CDs when I got it. Updating the firmware resolved that issue.

The thing that troubles me about the Yamaha, supposedly on of the best on the market is that the firmware has been revised five times over the original shipping firmware. The firmware updates are available @
http://www.yamahayst.com/techsup/download.htm.
I don't know/doubt that this will help with a crazy termination issue, but stranger things have happened... Thanks for having such an exceptional site...
Paul Hildahl "

Thanks for the info guys!


6/20/1998: iMac News/Rants/Raves/Rumors: There was a lot of info on the iMac in the Fridays news page at the main site.


6/18/1998: G3 IDE Master/Slave Drives: This just in from a reader:

"As for the G3 Slave ATA problems, I think I discovered part of the answer. In order to get the CD-ROM drive to work as a slave, you must be sure to have the new "Apple CD/DVD Driver" extension loaded and not the previous "Apple CD-ROM" extension. Version 5.4.2 of the Apple CD-ROM extension came with MacOS 8.1, but the G3 Rev. 2 that I recently purchased came with version 1.00 of the new Apple CD/DVD Driver. With the new driver, the CD-ROM appears to work as usual. The lesson for anyone attempting to use a slave drive is be _sure_ your software supports it. I wonder if anyone knows authoritatively which software does? Drive Setup 1.5? FWB HDT? Others? Until we know for sure, I'm sticking with the CD-ROM as a slave drive and my hard drives as masters.
Ruben Brochner"


6/17/1998: G3 Rev 2 Boot Code: This just in from a friend of the site:

"The boot code in the new bootable CDs has changed to support the master/slave ATA functionality. Toast 3.5.4 will not create bootable Rev 2 CDs from Mac volumes but there is a workaround. You can do a Toast SCSI copy of the new system CD without clearing the DDM (driver descriptor map) and save it as a disk image. You can then mount the image, replace the contents with your own, and burn a new CD in disk image mode. The only caveat is that you're limited to the size of the original image."


6/17/1998: G3 Rev 2 MB/Old AV Modules: I thought the new MB and old AV modules would play, maybe not according to this report:

"I just updated my motherboard to a rev 2 (RagePro) and discovered the AV module does not seem to function. iVisit and Apple's video player does not detect any video capability. I don't currently have the system enabler 777, so that may be the reason.
R-R"


6/14/1998: G3/300 results: Just a note that I'm running a G3/300 at 66/333 and 1.5:1 cache ratio fine. MacBench 4.0 CPU score is 1213. 60C max temp so far after several hours. It's too fast at scrolling in Emailer2 (folders view). I keep scrolling too far in each direction trying to select from my (long!) mail folder list. I'm impressed so far. I swapped a reader my G3/266, G3 internal modem and boot for the G3/300/1MB ZIF module. I figured it would be the only way I could afford to own a G3/300.


6/13/1998: S/Ns for new G3s w/RagePro: The data I have shows the change was broken in at S/N RB818... and higher (new RagePro equipped G3s with IDE Zip drives and master/slave IDE capability. New ROM dimm and System enabler 777 as well. The new AV Module is said to not have any functional changes, just a layout change to allow it to work in all G3 models. The old AV model seems to work fine in the new Rev 2. Motherboard. The revision 2 motherboard part number is # 661-2063, the older Revision 1 is part # 661-1032 [thanks Robert Hall!]

Still looking for verification that Videoconferencing works in the Rev 2 boards with the 4MB or 6MB video upgrade. If you have tested this, please contact me.


6/10/1998: Apple Drive Setup v1.5 Posted: Get it at ftp://ftp.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates /US/Macintosh/Utilities/Drive_Setup/

Version 1.5 adds support for Power Macintosh G3 computers and fixes a bug where the write cache on some ATA drives was disabled following a restart.


6/09/1998: G3/Panasonic 7502 CDR Fix: Today's xlr8yourmac.com news page has info on a possible fix for the Panasonic CDR in Apple G3's. URLs to a bios update and drivers are included. I've added this to the Compatibility page.


6/07/1998: G3 RageII vs RagePro vs ProRez: I've updated my IXMicro ProRez review with comparison scores in MacBench 4.0 to show test results in the G3/266MT of the ATI 4MB RagePro 3D card (along with the stock RageII video) at 1024x768, thousands colors and 1152x870 millions colors. Owners of the new G3 models with RagePro video will see substantial gains if the RagePro PCI card is any indication. It was 30% faster at 1024x768 thousands colors mode and 80% to 173% faster in 1152x870 millions color mode than the RageII+ chip.

To see the 1024x768 thousands colors score click here, for the 1152x870, millions colors scores click here.


6/04/1998: Special Page on G3 Temp Issues/Cooling Tips: I've updated the G3 Temperature/Cooling page with more reader's comments on the temperature reporting software, cooling tips and some surprising results of tests on the All In One Mac and even a G3/300 report.


6/02/1998: G3 Cooling: Readers sent two items that may be of interest:

"Hi Mike:
This e-mail concerns wildly fluctuating temperatures which G3 owners have reported. Specifically, I will be dealing with Apple G3 machines in the MiniTower enclosure. This fix is from personal experience. This maybe front page news and that is why I am emailing to you first rather than posting.

Basically, after noticing temperatures creeping from 68 all the way to 80 degrees, I knew something was wrong. while opening up the minitower enclosure, I noticed that the EIDE, and SCSI connectors had snaked their way down and were now literally blocking the vent fan from properly ventilating the whole area. Well, I tucked the cables back up into the proper area and made sure the cables sat as flat as possible on the motherboard and swung the floppy cable over the EIDE cables to ensure that they would sit flat. With that said and done, the next step was to power on the machine and see what effect it would have on CPU temperatures. Well, i'm happy to report that after hours of use, the temperature remains stable at 65 degrees C (149F) at 333mhz. Before, temps ranged anywhere from 68-72. Well, hope i've helped. great site and keep it up!
-Ben Chi"

Martin Kauffman sent info on G3 Cooling Kits:

" Perhaps you have seen the cooling fans that RTechnologies is selling for the G3 mini-towers for $49.95 + $6 shipping = $55.95. (Martin sold out of his kits - so I removed the info)"


5/19/1998: G3 Internal Modem: I've added a illustrated tutorial on installing a G3 internal modem. It's linked on the Upgrades page as well.


5/14/1998: G3 w/768MB SDRAM: A insider in the ram business sent screenshots showing that three 256MB SDRAMS work fine in the Apple G3. See the About and System Profile proof.


5/6/1998: Networking Memory Leak: As reported at the main site, several G3 owners are reporting severe memory leaks over extended periods of time (running AppleTalk/TCP-IP connections). The only current suggested fix is to get a aftermarket PCI network card. The Farallon 10/100 PCI cards are said to work well.


4/28/1998: G3/300 Cache Chip Info: An Apple G3/300 owner wrote that his system is running 83 Mhz bus speeds fine, with 300+ cpu speeds and noted that it appeared that the cache was 3.8ns speed, which he though would be good for much higher than 2:1 (half CPU clock) speeds of the stock setup.

I checked the Motorola part number he sent in (MCM69P737TQ3.8), and found out the parts are 3.8 ns access, 6.7 ns cycle time, rated for 150 Mhz according to the Motorola data sheet. The parts are Motorola's 128K x 16 Bit, pipelined BurstRam Synchronous fast static rams, available in 133, 150 and 166 Mhz rated speeds. Specifications on the parts are available in a 287K PDF file for those readers interested in all the details.

These Motorola parts integrate input registers, an output register, 2 bit-address counter and SRAM into one device for lower assembly parts count.


Keith Griffin sent sent info on a G3 Drive Bracket with fans (suitable for even a Cheetah drive): APS technologies has the kit for the G3/8600/9600, part # 102471. Price is $49.95 plus shipping.


= For More G3 info - see the main www.xlr8yourmac.com page, Systems page and CPU Upgrades page. =

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